Mission dictates gear, always. Hypothetically the communists come over the hill HERE in Oklahoma, AR or AK is fine. With all the rolling hills and thickets of trees in eastern Oklahoma, your maximum engagement range is rarely above 400m outside of urban areas. That said, out west where things flatten out and there are longer lines of sight on a regular basis, I think your AR starts to shine a bit if configured in a RECCE or SPR config. But again, Mission dictates gear. If all you're doing is holding down your house or similar bug out location, you might want a DMR like an AR-10 since weight doesn't matter. If you're doing a lot of movement with your weapon through terrain a light shortie AR or Krink (a real krink in 5.45 not a shortie AKM) might make the most sense. Etc Etc Etc.
All this said the whole AR is less reliable thing has been debunked time and time again. The ONLY area where the AK is the objectively more reliable rifle is in -extreme- cold. The kind of cold that we don't even see down here in Oklahoma. For everything else the AR might actually be the better pick because it can seal out the debris in the environment, whereas AKs cannot (excluding maybe the Galil ACE if we're allowing AK derivatives). ARs are also much better suppressor hosts, and can easily have field-adjustable gas if you're a builder (Yes AKs have the KNS piston but you have to field strip the rifle to adjust gas). The 5.56 cartridge has much better ballistics and a far larger choice of the bullet if you hand load. I -love- my AKs, and I would honestly take a cheap AK over a cheap AR because I think the AK design is a little more forgiving of poor QC, but if you're giving me a couple grand to build a dream kit for whatever whatever I'm using Stoner's gift to the free world.
If you're TEOTWAWKI prepping, I think they're both valid choices but the AR wins out due to the huge amount of ammo and parts availability from both civilian and government sources. Yes, there are plenty of good ol boys who stacked pallets of the soviet surplus ammo when it was cheap and have crates of SKSs, Mosins, and WASRs, occasionally. But there are police and military armories full of 5.56 and AR-compatible parts in every town in America. There are ammo depots with millions of rounds of 5.56 and 7.62x51 staged all around the country. The entire might of the US logistics machine has been working for nearly six decades now to ensure AR-15-derived rifles can stay in the fight. That's huge, and cannot be discarded. Anyway. Enough rambling from me.
All this said the whole AR is less reliable thing has been debunked time and time again. The ONLY area where the AK is the objectively more reliable rifle is in -extreme- cold. The kind of cold that we don't even see down here in Oklahoma. For everything else the AR might actually be the better pick because it can seal out the debris in the environment, whereas AKs cannot (excluding maybe the Galil ACE if we're allowing AK derivatives). ARs are also much better suppressor hosts, and can easily have field-adjustable gas if you're a builder (Yes AKs have the KNS piston but you have to field strip the rifle to adjust gas). The 5.56 cartridge has much better ballistics and a far larger choice of the bullet if you hand load. I -love- my AKs, and I would honestly take a cheap AK over a cheap AR because I think the AK design is a little more forgiving of poor QC, but if you're giving me a couple grand to build a dream kit for whatever whatever I'm using Stoner's gift to the free world.
If you're TEOTWAWKI prepping, I think they're both valid choices but the AR wins out due to the huge amount of ammo and parts availability from both civilian and government sources. Yes, there are plenty of good ol boys who stacked pallets of the soviet surplus ammo when it was cheap and have crates of SKSs, Mosins, and WASRs, occasionally. But there are police and military armories full of 5.56 and AR-compatible parts in every town in America. There are ammo depots with millions of rounds of 5.56 and 7.62x51 staged all around the country. The entire might of the US logistics machine has been working for nearly six decades now to ensure AR-15-derived rifles can stay in the fight. That's huge, and cannot be discarded. Anyway. Enough rambling from me.
For me the AR wins out in almost every scenario. The AK is a great weapon, but being built for reliability makes it fail in many regards that are far more important in gun fighting. The AR’s manual of arms lends itself to operation during intense, stressful times. The AK can be run in YouTube videos but under even stressful training scenarios running it becomes cumbersome and stressful.
Reloads are a great example. It’s the main reason the AR platform replaced the MP5 in most Police circles worldwide. Safety switches are another example of how a simple ergonomic changes how a weapon system feels. The AR needs to be maintained, but if you have an even decent BCG, you do a basic wipe down and oil and you’ll be good to go.
I have an AK to train on just in case it’s the only thing I have, I know how to use one, but in any situation I can think of I’ll be using one of my ARs. As soon as I can reliably get my hands on a sig MCX, I’ll be running with that
Reloads are a great example. It’s the main reason the AR platform replaced the MP5 in most Police circles worldwide. Safety switches are another example of how a simple ergonomic changes how a weapon system feels. The AR needs to be maintained, but if you have an even decent BCG, you do a basic wipe down and oil and you’ll be good to go.
I have an AK to train on just in case it’s the only thing I have, I know how to use one, but in any situation I can think of I’ll be using one of my ARs. As soon as I can reliably get my hands on a sig MCX, I’ll be running with that
Hey Corgi Rancher, was Rob Rathburn one of your instructors at the D.P.D. carbine course? He and Bill Black from Englewood designed and wrote that course for the guys. Matter of fact the Oklahoma Highway Patrol patterned their carbine program on the D.P.D. class.
Both were Thunder Ranch instructors as well. Just curious we might know some folks in common.
Both were Thunder Ranch instructors as well. Just curious we might know some folks in common.
I agree with AguaFria.
I abuse my AR's just as much as my AK's. Don't have issues with either unless things get extreme.
Durability.... who here has actually broken an AK or AR from hard use, not wear parts? Again, Nonissue.
And everyone's favorite topic, accuracy.
Both rifles were designed to be 5moa or better rifles at 100 yards. I'm willing to bet that everyone isn't gonna be walking around with nickel plated match grade super ammo when the world ends. Regardless of the circumstances, end of the world, shootout at the OK Corral, or just returning fire at the hillbillies who stole your AC Compressor for the 5th time this month; very few, if any of us, are practiced enough or have the CURRENT experience to take advantage of a 1moa gun in the middle of a gun fight. Regardless, unless we"re talking about target shooting or small game, even a 5 Moa gun will hit a 50" circle at 1000 yards, assuming you do your part. That's enough to hit center mass on about half the people in this state if we're talking about going out and playing Rainbow 6 in the woods.
I abuse my AR's just as much as my AK's. Don't have issues with either unless things get extreme.
Durability.... who here has actually broken an AK or AR from hard use, not wear parts? Again, Nonissue.
And everyone's favorite topic, accuracy.
Both rifles were designed to be 5moa or better rifles at 100 yards. I'm willing to bet that everyone isn't gonna be walking around with nickel plated match grade super ammo when the world ends. Regardless of the circumstances, end of the world, shootout at the OK Corral, or just returning fire at the hillbillies who stole your AC Compressor for the 5th time this month; very few, if any of us, are practiced enough or have the CURRENT experience to take advantage of a 1moa gun in the middle of a gun fight. Regardless, unless we"re talking about target shooting or small game, even a 5 Moa gun will hit a 50" circle at 1000 yards, assuming you do your part. That's enough to hit center mass on about half the people in this state if we're talking about going out and playing Rainbow 6 in the woods.
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@KurtM Yep... Rob and Bill were the instructors for the rifle course and the instructor course. Bill Black was a Lt at Littleton PD (he died from cancer about 15 or 16 years ago). Both great guys. Small world...
Ahh yes he was Littleton! So much for a razor sharp memory. Yeah he got prostate cancer, and we thought he had it beat, but it came back. Last time I saw him was the week after he had to medically retire. I used to do some stuff with Rob after he moved to the Academy, and was the Opfor for most of DPDs active shooter response training with Mike Hughes, also gone in a plane wreck at GunSite. Did a few classes for the SWAT guys as well under Abrams if I remember right. Left the Denver area in 2003. Man I'm happy I ended up in Oklahoma.
Oh yeah, I voted AR because of ergonomics.
Oh yeah, I voted AR because of ergonomics.
i kept sks and ak’s around for a long time. After coming back from Iraq i changed over to an AR ( but never got rid of the M1A). My military job before iraq only called for occasional qual with the rifle, not daily carry and use. The safety, ( and the AK’s really hard to use safety) was a lot of it, but the better sights, better accuracy and quicker reloads helped push me into the change. I also used to think the 7.62 could be used better for deer and hogs if need be, but the last 6 deer ( between me and the kids) with .223 and good loads have changed that opinion..
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Oklahoma City
- For Sale
- Sub Category: Rifles
- Sale Price: 1800$
- Caliber: 7.62x39
