biden-gang-now-pushing-billionaires-tax-reality-will-likely-soon-tax-americans-401ks-iras/

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dennishoddy

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Never said it wasn’t legal, I said it’s a loop hole, as such it’s legal. When Bezos, Musk, etc get out of paying income taxes for years at a time, it’s a fundamental problem. There are many, many ways around it. Easiest way 1) get paid in stock not salary that never pays a divided. 2) get loans to live off of (not income, so loans are not taxable), 3) Die, pass on your unrealized stock gains to the next generatio.

The other way is exploiting Roth IRAs, Peter Thiel did this brilliantly, and since he now a citizen of New Zealand too, he can even pass his 5 billion roth IRA on, without every paying taxes on it by denouncing his US citizenship and exploiting more loopholes.

I personally am for just a flat tax. Get rid of all the needless complexity.
We can never have a flat tax. The liberals need inflation to increase prices so taxes increase accordingly and the republicans aren't far behind. That is the theory they based the 5 trillion dollar bill they have that is foundering saying it's paid for?
Not one argument you put up is illegal, so it can't be a loophole. They are using the tax laws given to them by congress to their advantage. I think we all do that to some degree.
You can't be serious about unrealized stock gains. Do you really understand how that works and how detrimental that is for the working stiff and their 401K or personal stock? If my stock makes 100% this year, and next year, it goes into the tank making -100 percent, the liberals want to charge the same tax even though its a loss to the owner of the stock because of unrealized gains.
This bill only focuses on 700 people in this entire country. Is there anyway those proposed taxes against their combined income is going to reach 5 trillion?
My calculator says no way.
The same with Musk and all of them in that 700. They are corporations.
Corporations don't pay taxes per say. If they get a tax on them, they pass it on to the consumer which in this country is the middle class which results in inflation.
Since the poor can't handle inflation, sugar daddy comes out with new free money to help them barely stay alive along with other gubberment hand outs to keep the vote liberal.
See how that works?
 

El Pablo

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We can never have a flat tax. The liberals need inflation to increase prices so taxes increase accordingly and the republicans aren't far behind. That is the theory they based the 5 trillion dollar bill they have that is foundering saying it's paid for?
Not one argument you put up is illegal, so it can't be a loophole. They are using the tax laws given to them by congress to their advantage. I think we all do that to some degree.
You can't be serious about unrealized stock gains. Do you really understand how that works and how detrimental that is for the working stiff and their 401K or personal stock? If my stock makes 100% this year, and next year, it goes into the tank making -100 percent, the liberals want to charge the same tax even though its a loss to the owner of the stock because of unrealized gains.
This bill only focuses on 700 people in this entire country. Is there anyway those proposed taxes against their combined income is going to reach 5 trillion?
My calculator says no way.
The same with Musk and all of them in that 700. They are corporations.
Corporations don't pay taxes per say. If they get a tax on them, they pass it on to the consumer which in this country is the middle class which results in inflation.
Since the poor can't handle inflation, sugar daddy comes out with new free money to help them barely stay alive along with other gubberment hand outs to keep the vote liberal.
See how that works?
Tax loop holes by very definition are legal. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be closed. Loophole

I have investments, I understand unrealized gains. Stock is part of my compensation. I still can’t exploit it like them based on how I get my stock.

I’m asking, how do you close obvious loop holes only the uber rich can exploit? No, closing the loop hole won’t cover the tax bill, that’s a separate issue. It makes no sense for the richest people in the world to practically avoid all income tax if they want to.
 

Glocktogo

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How do you tax the billionaires that hide from taxes? Look up Buy, Borrow, Die. What’s a fair way to close the loop holes?
The most disingenuous thing in politics, is congresscritters complaining about rich people utilizing tax loopholes, from whom they took money to PASS those very same loopholes!

For example, has anyone ever seen or heard of Nancy Pelosi refusing to utilize a tax loophole on her own taxes? :anyone:
 

El Pablo

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The most disingenuous thing in politics, is congresscritters complaining about rich people utilizing tax loopholes, from whom they took money to PASS those very same loopholes!

For example, has anyone ever seen or heard of Nancy Pelosi refusing to utilize a tax loophole on her own taxes? :anyone:
I don’t disagree, how do you close it?
 

dennishoddy

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Tax loop holes by very definition are legal. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be closed. Loophole

I have investments, I understand unrealized gains. Stock is part of my compensation. I still can’t exploit it like them based on how I get my stock.

I’m asking, how do you close obvious loop holes only the uber rich can exploit? No, closing the loop hole won’t cover the tax bill, that’s a separate issue. It makes no sense for the richest people in the world to practically avoid all income tax if they want to.
Anybody that gets a tax refund is using a loophole? Is the mortgage interest on your home or child care deduction a loophole that the liberals need to close? The ramifications of a bill like that may only apply to 700 this year, but what happens next year or the year after. No matter what, those 700 cannot make up 5 trillion.
How are they exploiting something that is legal?
If a farmer makes a profit one year with good rain, and lots of sunshine, and the next year loses the crop to a flood, they would be taxed under brain dead biden for the crop lost as an unrealized profit down the road. You still don't see that?
This discussion probably doesn't matter anyway because it won't pass Constitutional muster.
It's blatant discrimination.
Should we do away with corporations and the effects taxes have on inflation? You didn't discuss that aspect.
I'd like to hear more.
 

El Pablo

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Anybody that gets a tax refund is using a loophole? Is the mortgage interest on your home a loophole that the liberals need to close? The ramifications of a bill like that may only apply to 700 this year, but what happens next year or the year after. No matter what, those 700 cannot make up 5 trillion.
How are they exploiting something that is legal?
If a farmer makes a profit one year with good rain, and lots of sunshine, and the next year loses the crop to a flood, they would be taxed under brain dead biden for the crop lost as an unrealized profit down the road. You still don't see that?
This discussion probably doesn't matter anyway because it won't pass Constitutional muster.
It's blatant discrimination.
Should we do away with corporations and the effects taxes have on inflation? You didn't discuss that aspect.
I'd like to hear more.
We are talking very different things. I don’t think it’s ok you and I pay more in income tax than quite a few billionaires. You seem ok with it.

Cooperations have nothing to do with what I’m saying about individual billionaires. That’s yet another problem. I’m pro democracy, and free market economy. It make no sense Peter thiel can invest 2k in a Roth IRA and turn it into 5 billion and avoid all income taxes on it, and even pass it on to his heirs, tax free. You, I, these farmers can not exploit some of these loop holes. That is problematic. I can’t buy pre ipo shares at a massively reduced rate, not available to the public, in my Roth IRA. You can’t either, Peter Thiel could, can, and did. I don’t blame him for it, I’d do the same thing. It was absolutely brilliant of him.

Again, I posted a link the very definition of tax loop hole above. Tax refund has nothing to do with it. In fact, if someone gets large tax refunds, they are not very financially savvy. They just gave the govt a free loan.

Somewhere there has to be a balance. Read up on buy, borrow, die, which I posted above, or Peter Thiels brilliant strategy. Then I think we will be on similar pages.
 

dennishoddy

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We are talking very different things. I don’t think it’s ok you and I pay more in income tax than quite a few billionaires. You seem ok with it.

Cooperations have nothing to do with what I’m saying about individual billionaires. That’s yet another problem. I’m pro democracy, and free market economy. It make no sense Peter thiel can invest 2k in a Roth IRA and turn it into 5 billion and avoid all income taxes on it, and even pass it on to his heirs, tax free. You, I, these farmers can not exploit some of these loop holes. That is problematic. I can’t buy pre ipo shares at a massively reduced rate, not available to the public, in my Roth IRA. You can’t either, Peter Thiel could, can, and did. I don’t blame him for it, I’d do the same thing. It was absolutely brilliant of him.

Again, I posted a link the very definition of tax loop hole above. Tax refund has nothing to do with it. In fact, if someone gets large tax refunds, they are not very financially savvy. They just gave the govt a free loan.

Somewhere there has to be a balance. Read up on buy, borrow, die, which I posted above, or Peter Thiels brilliant strategy. Then I think we will be on similar pages.
Billionaires do not live with a static income and a 401 K like we do. That guy used the rules passed by congress to make money. What's wrong with that? Are you happy at your income level or would you prefer to make another hundred million or so?
They live under a corporation umbrella. I keep trying to emphasize this as they don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed on to the people the corporation is supported by which is the middle class. The middle class like you and I will fund this 5 trillion through inflationary taxes.
 

El Pablo

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Billionaires do not live with a static income and a 401 K like we do. That guy used the rules passed by congress to make money. What's wrong with that? Are you happy at your income level or would you prefer to make another hundred million or so?
They live under a corporation umbrella. I keep trying to emphasize this as they don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed on to the people the corporation is supported by which is the middle class. The middle class like you and I will fund this 5 trillion through inflationary taxes.
I’m not middle class, I completely lack class. My income and happiness is irrelevant. I’d prefer another 300 million or so. You would really like your Xmas present and my insane private gun range, off road trails, and race track if I had it.. All fully furnished with toys. One of the many, many reasons I’d never have 300 million

Again, I suggest you read what I linked to, then you will see how you can have actual cashflow and no income tax.

Corp umbrella is a separate issue.

I don’t understand why anyone short of billionaires would be ok with them being able to avoid income taxes and inheiratence taxes if they so choose. Seems to me it should be a bi partisan issue. For some reason it’s not. I’ve only asked how do you close some tax loopholes? Only ones I have are flat tax and changing rules like you can’t buy non publicly available investments, nor investments at a discount,in you investment vehicles. And no, it wouldn’t pass as it would tax all the rich folks in office in dc. It’s still an idea though.
 

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