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<blockquote data-quote="gerhard1" data-source="post: 3094115" data-attributes="member: 5391"><p>My response:</p><p></p><p>That's not quite what I'm saying. What I am saying is that people should be aware of what we Americans call the 'law of unintended consequences'. There are numerous example of this, but I'll just give a couple. </p><p></p><p>The 'Cop-Killer' bullet craze was one. This bit of hysteria was served up by NBC News on one of their 'White Papers'. There is a company in Ohio called KTW. KTW made ammunition that was designed for extreme penetration. It was made of tungsten with a coating of Teflon and was then put into a copper jacket to enable it to engage the handguns rifling.</p><p></p><p>I had heard of the KTW round several years prior to the NBC News piece because I had seen articles on it in my brother's police journals, extolling its superior ability to pierce barricades, auto bodies, etc. This was in the early 1970's (1972 or 1973) and the NBC piece came out in the early 1980's. NBC claimed in their White Paper that the KTW round had been designed to defeat the Kevlar vests that served police as soft body armor. There are three problems here: one was that KTW never sold their product to the general public but only to police and military agencies, and the second problem was the company's founders were two police officers and a coroner's investigator. The NBC claim that it was intended to defeat the police armor was thus demonstrably false because the KTW round was made by police for police. The third problem is that the KTW was made prior to police use of armor becoming widespread, so it could hardly have been designed to defeat Kevlar body armor because it pre-dated police body armor.</p><p></p><p>Bills were introduced to correct this 'problem' and the NRA opposed the bills. This opposition was widely-reported in the media and had the effect the media wanted, to wit; the made it look as though there was yet another group the NRA care nothing about and that was the police. The propaganda value this gave to the bill's proponents was immense. In addition to babies and little old ladies, the claim was advanced that the NRA now hated cops. </p><p></p><p>There was a problem however, and that was that in their zeal to correct what was in essence a non-existent problem* the reason for the NRA's opposition to these proposals was not explained: the way these bills were written, they would have banned nearly all ammunition used in rifles. Working quietly with friendly lawmakers, the bills in question were modified and the final bill passed with NRA support. BTW, that the NRA supported the final bill was not reported by the media.</p><p></p><p>One unintended consequence was that after the NBC piece aired, the number of police officers shot in the head increased.</p><p></p><p>One other bill I had told about before was Senator Boxer's "Junk Guns" proposal. The idea, as reported in the media, was to ban the sale of unsafe handguns. These guns were cheap guns made of pot metal that would be much more likely to blow up or something. They were unsafe, unreliable, inaccurate pieces of junk, whose sole virtue was their price. Hence the name of her bill. The determinant of junk gun status was the ATF sporting use formula, which used as the main criterion, the size of the gun. This stopped the importation of some very good quality guns made by Browning, and Walther among others. </p><p></p><p>Another curious thing I pointed out about Boxer's proposal was the exceedingly strange exception that the bill contained. Remember, these were cheap, unsafe, inaccurate unreliable guns. The exception was the police and the military alone had the right to buy and use unsafe unreliable, inaccurate pieces of junk. This exception showed the real purpose behind the bill; it was not aimed at unsafe guns as much as it was for guns suitable for concealed carry.</p><p></p><p>She relied on a willfully ignorant media to spin it her way. Hers was not so much ignorance as it was deliberate deception and the media came through for her like a champ.</p><p></p><p>So, good Dr_Baltar, while I can agree that opinions are valid, some come from gross ignorance as well. Please remember what I said about the law of unintended consequences.</p><p></p><p>*The reason I say it was a non-existent problem is because to the best of my knowledge, the number of police officers killed or wounded by 'cop-killer' ammunition is precisely zero.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gerhard1, post: 3094115, member: 5391"] My response: That's not quite what I'm saying. What I am saying is that people should be aware of what we Americans call the 'law of unintended consequences'. There are numerous example of this, but I'll just give a couple. The 'Cop-Killer' bullet craze was one. This bit of hysteria was served up by NBC News on one of their 'White Papers'. There is a company in Ohio called KTW. KTW made ammunition that was designed for extreme penetration. It was made of tungsten with a coating of Teflon and was then put into a copper jacket to enable it to engage the handguns rifling. I had heard of the KTW round several years prior to the NBC News piece because I had seen articles on it in my brother's police journals, extolling its superior ability to pierce barricades, auto bodies, etc. This was in the early 1970's (1972 or 1973) and the NBC piece came out in the early 1980's. NBC claimed in their White Paper that the KTW round had been designed to defeat the Kevlar vests that served police as soft body armor. There are three problems here: one was that KTW never sold their product to the general public but only to police and military agencies, and the second problem was the company's founders were two police officers and a coroner's investigator. The NBC claim that it was intended to defeat the police armor was thus demonstrably false because the KTW round was made by police for police. The third problem is that the KTW was made prior to police use of armor becoming widespread, so it could hardly have been designed to defeat Kevlar body armor because it pre-dated police body armor. Bills were introduced to correct this 'problem' and the NRA opposed the bills. This opposition was widely-reported in the media and had the effect the media wanted, to wit; the made it look as though there was yet another group the NRA care nothing about and that was the police. The propaganda value this gave to the bill's proponents was immense. In addition to babies and little old ladies, the claim was advanced that the NRA now hated cops. There was a problem however, and that was that in their zeal to correct what was in essence a non-existent problem* the reason for the NRA's opposition to these proposals was not explained: the way these bills were written, they would have banned nearly all ammunition used in rifles. Working quietly with friendly lawmakers, the bills in question were modified and the final bill passed with NRA support. BTW, that the NRA supported the final bill was not reported by the media. One unintended consequence was that after the NBC piece aired, the number of police officers shot in the head increased. One other bill I had told about before was Senator Boxer's "Junk Guns" proposal. The idea, as reported in the media, was to ban the sale of unsafe handguns. These guns were cheap guns made of pot metal that would be much more likely to blow up or something. They were unsafe, unreliable, inaccurate pieces of junk, whose sole virtue was their price. Hence the name of her bill. The determinant of junk gun status was the ATF sporting use formula, which used as the main criterion, the size of the gun. This stopped the importation of some very good quality guns made by Browning, and Walther among others. Another curious thing I pointed out about Boxer's proposal was the exceedingly strange exception that the bill contained. Remember, these were cheap, unsafe, inaccurate unreliable guns. The exception was the police and the military alone had the right to buy and use unsafe unreliable, inaccurate pieces of junk. This exception showed the real purpose behind the bill; it was not aimed at unsafe guns as much as it was for guns suitable for concealed carry. She relied on a willfully ignorant media to spin it her way. Hers was not so much ignorance as it was deliberate deception and the media came through for her like a champ. So, good Dr_Baltar, while I can agree that opinions are valid, some come from gross ignorance as well. Please remember what I said about the law of unintended consequences. *The reason I say it was a non-existent problem is because to the best of my knowledge, the number of police officers killed or wounded by 'cop-killer' ammunition is precisely zero. [/QUOTE]
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