Bullet performance on BIG critters

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swampratt

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I have heard many times Elk can absorb a lot of bullets.
Shoot them and they stand there like they were not hit.

I also see good 1 shot kills on big elk where they just crumple.
Was it a spin shot?

I have killed many deer but no elk or bear or big critters like that.
I have noticed though for quick drop in your tracks kills the bullet needs to create a lot of trauma.
Heavy constructed bullets or too low of velocity on impact to get the bullet to create trauma have resulted in game that
you have to track or put more bullets into it.

My 30-30 was the worst offender of all my rifles. 90% of the shots just penciled through and the deer took off.
Using exposed lead tipped 150 gr and 170 gr 30-30 bullets.

Getting onto the .308 I found a bullet that would just pencil through. yea it would put a rip in the heart or a hole in a lung but the tiny pencil holes just do not kill quick.

Do these big honkin 200+ gr bullets many people like to use just not create enough trauma?
That is the question that goes through my mind.

For hogs and whitetails my 55 Vmax is top shelf on my list.
Not the 55 SP Hornady though.. not even close to the same performance.
It just makes a tiny mushroom.

I have had excellent results with the Amax line 155-168-178.
Yea those last ones will ruin some shoulders though. But bang flop is better than tracking.
 

rockchalk06

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Hornady's 212 ELD-X in the 300 PRC is showing 2285 FP's of Energy at 500 yards where as the 178 grain ELD-x in 308 is showing 1346 FP's at 500 yards. I would never use a .308 for Elk, but those numbers tell me what is the better round.

I've never killed an Elk. I don't know how much shot placement plays a part in bang flop on a heart/lung shot. I've hit deer with a 117 grain 25-06 with DRT results on a heart shot and had them run for a half mile after being hit with a 7mm STW on a heart shot. Looked at my dad after that shot and we both said WTF simultaneously. until that point, I'd have bet my paycheck the more energy on target the deadder the deer. The above deer had a shoulder that looked like like a hand grenade went off beside it. Heart was a pile of goo.

I've never really been concerned too much with meat loss more so a clean ethical quick kill. I'm no softy, but watching something flop around after I take it, kinda gets to me. Every doe I've ever taken for meat under 300 yards has been a head shot for that very reason. No meat loss either lol

I've always been a overkill kind of shooter. Can't kill them too dead IMO.
 

j99tc88

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In my years I’ve decided that any bullet any weight or speed can put a deer down with neck or spine shots. I like shoulder shots because they don’t run. And because spine or neck shots are harder at longer ranges. Behind the shoulder a heavy bullet of the correct construction causes extensive trauma but they can still travel a long way. A slug at close range or 45-70 was always my preferred behind the shoulder gun. Big hole lots of blood loss quickly. I have never shot a deer or hog much over 200 yards and most under 100, 270 has been my go to for years, and still the shoulder for me.
 

retrieverman

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The biggest calibers I shoot are 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r with bullet weights from 250-285 grains, and I’ve killed every thing from coyotes to 300+lb pigs.

Those calibers are designed and better suited (I assume) for African sized game, because I can remember a single animal that I’ve shot that got any bullet expansion.
 

diggler1833

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I have heard many times Elk can absorb a lot of bullets.
Shoot them and they stand there like they were not hit.

I also see good 1 shot kills on big elk where they just crumple.
Was it a spin shot?

I have killed many deer but no elk or bear or big critters like that.
I have noticed though for quick drop in your tracks kills the bullet needs to create a lot of trauma.
Heavy constructed bullets or too low of velocity on impact to get the bullet to create trauma have resulted in game that
you have to track or put more bullets into it.

My 30-30 was the worst offender of all my rifles. 90% of the shots just penciled through and the deer took off.
Using exposed lead tipped 150 gr and 170 gr 30-30 bullets.

Getting onto the .308 I found a bullet that would just pencil through. yea it would put a rip in the heart or a hole in a lung but the tiny pencil holes just do not kill quick.

Do these big honkin 200+ gr bullets many people like to use just not create enough trauma?
That is the question that goes through my mind.

For hogs and whitetails my 55 Vmax is top shelf on my list.
Not the 55 SP Hornady though.. not even close to the same performance.
It just makes a tiny mushroom.

I have had excellent results with the Amax line 155-168-178.
Yea those last ones will ruin some shoulders though. But bang flop is better than tracking.

Velocity and energy dump are our friends when it comes to anchoring game in a dramatic fashion. Hydrostatic shock is a very real phenomenon, but is generally unpredictable. It happens when you overpressure the circulatory system, essentially knocking out the game animal and they never return to consciousness before they expire.

Bullets that fragment, dump energy, and come to a stop more quickly are more likely to cause hydrostatic shock if they hit the circulatory system in my experience. That is why your AMAX does so well, even though it was an unintentional design benefit.

Big, heavy bullets that crush through are excellent for tough game and tough angles, but less expansion and more penetration have less effect on the circulatory system. They still kill just as effectively with a well-placed shot...just not as dramatically and maybe you have to track for a bit.

Some of the all copper monolithic bullets can do both pretty well.

Other guys just use bigger and more powerful cartridges to get the same effect.

In an opposite set of experiences to yours, I have about a 25% rate of hitting heart/lung with a. 308 and having the hog drop on the spot, just as if I hit it in the head.

...Or you can just shoot it in the CNS (spine from the front shoulders forward) or head and get your bang-flop that way too.
 

dennishoddy

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I've taken 10 elk and countless deer with a Browning Stainless Stalker in 30-06 using 165 grain Barnes TTSX on the elk and 165 grain Sierra 165 grain HPBT for deer along with a dozen or so other calibers running 55 grain up to the 165 grain. In almost every case, a complete pass through.
Never had an elk nor deer take more than a few steps after getting hit with either of those bullets.
The old mantra of shot placement and the terminal performance of the bullet evidenced by field dressing the animal gives the final answer about what bullet is best and which don't perform well.
I've never hunted big brown bears or other dangerous game of that caliber, but reading report after report, they have thick skin, large amounts of fat and heavy bones to carry their weight requiring bullets that rely more on penetration vs expansion to reach the vitals.
The only certain bang-flop is a shot to the CNS that will anchor one on the spot.
 

LBnM

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I believe a lot has to do with the way you hunt. I lived in Colorado in the 70s and early 80s. During that period, one of the most popular cartridges OF THE LOCALS was the .308 with 165 or 180 grain bullets. I killed many Bull Elk with a 7x57, a .280 Rem, and my personal favorite, a .358 Win. I also killed one each with a .338 WM and a .375 H&H. My longest shot ever on Elk was 87 paces. Most locals hunted up close and personal. I loved getting into the "black timber" with them. I haven't hunted in several years so imagine it's different now. From what I hear everyone sits off and shoots at long distance now. Back then, we called that sniping not hunting. I owned lots of rifles over the years but the only magnums were those two mentioned above. BTW, my longest shot on a mule deer was 125 yds running with my .280 Rem. He slid on his chin about 10 yds. No Elk I shot went more than 4 or 5 steps.
 

wolfkpr

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All 3 of my elk have been bow, and when i guided the kiddo to his first elk he hit spine and shoulder.. but on deer ive had lots run out of site with slower rounds like muzzleloader. I generally still aim for center lung “ high percentage shot”, and mainly use .308. I rarely get bang- flops, but most are down in sight, with 20-30 yds or less traveled. I believe ( and a buddy who has killed way more deer than me agrees)- that heart shot deer nearly always run farther than double lung hit. My youngest boy started with .223, and we’ve killed 5 or six with the barnes 62gr and fusion- only one that went (70yds) farther than 40yds was a lung/ liver hit at 130yds ish.. i do think the faster rounds ‘06 150gr, .270, 25-06, etc- do increase your odds of putting them down fast. I think if you really hate tracking you should study on the high shoulder shot ( heck we all should for when the property line is RIGHT THERE, and the position is steady enough). I encourage reading ballisticstudies.com - new zealander who who has done a crapload of research/field testing on all the diff hunt calibers, has a whole published “ knowledgebase” on performance of all the common loads..
 

turkeyrun

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I know a couple of guys that hunt elk with .243 and are successful.
My buddy uses a .338 Win Mag.
The 1 time I hunted elk, .30-06 with 180gr Nosler Partition, worked as needed.
Many deer taken with .30-06 150gr, 7mm Rem Mag 140gr and .223 64gr PSP. They farthest any went, after the shot, was 70 yards. Shot with 7mm, at 70 yards, quartering away, through left ribs out right should, disintegrate heart. Farthest any shot with .223 was 40 yards, majority, 10 yards or less.

A buddy just came back from a moose hunt, took his .264Mag with 140gr Nosler Partition. Shot a big bull at 60 yards. It did not react to the shot. He put a 2nd shot into lungs. It did not react.
He could see blood leaking from both shots. The moose stopped grazing and began to walk away. At 80 yards, he put 3rd shot low, behind ear and bull dropped.
Autopsy / field dress, all 3 shots exited. 1st shot destroyed the heart. 2nd shot destroyed lungs. 3rd shot removed brain and blew out front.

Elk or moose, IMO, .30-06 180gr heavy construction is minimum. .338 250gr is better.
 

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