Car quality going down the tubes?

[emapples]

I have an 02 wrangler with good all terrains that are snow rated. It’s downright boring on snow. It was terrifying with mud tires.

About to put wildpeak a/t on the outback.I expect the only time we will have an issue is if the snow is flat out too deep.

I thought that too, but I was in 10 inches of snow in a field in Burns, WY and driving around like it was on dry pavement. My 4 Runners would do it too but it got half the mpg while doing it, When I drove back through Kansas during that storm I had to drive my sons F250 4X4 (lifted on 35’s) because it was outright terrifying on the snow and ice, wife drove the outback the rest of the way home and agreed it was surefooted In the snow and that was on street tires.

 

[Camo]

Well that 2010 Outback is worth the repairs, it it’s in good shave I’d buy it with no reverse and have it fixed (They are ALL CVT today) Quality has taken a few hits due to several issues. 1) being built in America and more importantly the downfall of our culture 2) engines have looser tolerances so that they have less friction and use less gas in theory). But I can tell you the cars built in Japan are built better than ones built here. (“There are only a few still built over there). 4 Runner is one, I think the Forrester is another, different culture different results. Some companies just suck building reliable cars. And Toyota has pretty much carried the Torch for everyone, before they came along and when I was a kid, when your car hit 100K it was worn out and needed to be replaced. That started to change in the late 80’s and 90’s with these over engineered 22RE yota’s. I have had mulitple Toyotas well into the 200K range 245, 239, 276, with just routine maintenance. We have our first new car that wasn't a Toyota 2 years ago it‘s a Subaru Outback XT I will let you know in 10 years if it measures up, it’s an oddly capable and effecient SUV but I would have loved to have been able to buy it with a 6 speed

Toyota is living off the reputation they developed with the 20r, 22r, and 22rec. Haven’t built anything better then the competition since then.

 

[Camo]

GM’s quality systems have been terrible for decades. I mean if you are building OEM engines you should be testing incoming lots of lifters for correct hardness and tolerances before they ever make it to the production floor.

My mother bought a 2001 Silverado new. Drove it to 237k without any engine or trans work. Zero. Trans rebuilt at 237 and then drove to 249k before a moron turned in front of her in wellston and totaled it, great truck.

 

[SoonerP226]

I would agree using Ford as an example here my 2019 F150 had to have cam phasers replaced at 25,000 miles this has been an ongoing issue for a decade with their cam phasers. That’s pre COVID quality problems but since Covid they have had catastrophic engine failures in their new Bronco’s. What should have been the best selling vehicle they have had in decades has turned into a nightmare.

Cam phasers were an issue on the 5.4, and maybe 4.6, but they're not a widespread issue on the Coyote, which uses a different phaser design that's not as dependent on the engine oil. These are imperfect machines built by imperfect people, so anything can have issues.

FWIW, my Coyote-powered '13 F-150 just rolled over 186,000 miles, and it has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

 

[emapples]

Toyota is living off the reputation they developed with the 20r, 22r, and 22rec. Haven’t built anything better then the competition since then.

For the most part this is true nothing is better, I think they have two Tundras now over a million miles, I believe they were the 4.7’s

 

[emapples]

Cam phasers were an issue on the 5.4, and maybe 4.6, but they're not a widespread issue on the Coyote, which uses a different phaser design that's not as dependent on the engine oil. These are imperfect machines built by imperfect people, so anything can have issues.

FWIW, my Coyote-powered '13 F-150 just rolled over 186,000 miles, and it has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

The 3.5 eco boost had a cam phaser recall as well, I just took mine in this year. The 6.2 L had a cam phaser issue……it’s pretty serious when so many of your engines have the same issue. Now I can’t say my truck made it all the way to anything without a major repair! I do like the engine, I think the 3.5 eco boost has plenty of power and torque and sounds great too. But it’s not going to make it to 200’k club with no issues as it lost that title at 25,000 miles.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

This sounds like the “senior citizen center”……”Why, back in my day everything was better”.

 

[emapples]

Toyota is living off the reputation they developed with the 20r, 22r, and 22rec. Haven’t built anything better then the competition since then. R

I will always take a Toyota over Ford, Dodge, or Chevy, I just have to many bad results from Chevy and Dodge, and to a lesser extent ford (except for that 81 F150 that was a piece of junk top to bottom). The once thing I will say about Toyota is they are very slow to innovate, there product line evolves very slowly. While Ford is at least pushing some boundaries and attempting to break some new ground…. Eco Boost for example could be a spectacular engine if they can make it bulletproof. Those 10 speeds are a great idea (although they have had alot of problems) they are at least pushing the envelope.

 

[Camo]

I will always take a Toyota over Ford, Dodge, or Chevy, I just have to many bad results from Chevy and Dodge, and to a lesser extent ford (except for that 81 F150 that was a piece of junk top to bottom). The once thing I will say about Toyota is they are very slow to innovate, there product line evolves very slowly. While Ford is at least pushing some boundaries and attempting to break some new ground…. Eco Boost for example could be a spectacular engine if they can make it bulletproof. Those 10 speeds are a great idea (although they have had alot of problems) they are at least pushing the envelope.

Kia and Hyundai are better than the stuff Toyota is putting out today.

 

[Camo]

The 3.5 eco boost had a cam phaser recall as well, I just took mine in this year. The 6.2 L had a cam phaser issue……it’s pretty serious when so many of your engines have the same issue. Now I can’t say my truck made it all the way to anything without a major repair! I do like the engine, I think the 3.5 eco boost has plenty of power and torque and sounds great too. But it’s not going to make it to 200’k club with no issues as it lost that title at 25,000 miles.

Ecoboost. Another fine failure. Worse gas mileage then my old Chevy LS and nowhere near the power,