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Competition, Tactics & Training
Self Defense & Handgun Carry
Carry illegal at church?
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<blockquote data-quote="vvvvvvv" data-source="post: 801709" data-attributes="member: 5151"><p>If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel. The guy next to me in the sound booth feels that way. I'm sure that if my firearm is needed, he'll change his mind.</p><p></p><p>What makes a church safer than any other place? Does your church have metal detectors and pat-downs at the door? Mine doesn't, but I'm in a small town.</p><p></p><p>What about LEO's? I think only two (maybe three) of the LEO's that attend my church carry off duty, and they don't regularly attend. We have a pretty good cop-to-congregant ratio in our small church.</p><p></p><p>Most churches are great soft targets. Many churches allow people to come and go as they please. Most churches don't pay attention to body language that could be signs of potential trouble.</p><p></p><p>Here's what I do at church. When people start coming in, I start identifying who is who. Who's the regulars. Who's from around town, and what are their beliefs (it's a small town, so if someone has it out for the church, everyone will hear about it if it is a local). Who's the LEO's in attendance, and where are they seated (unfortunately, in our church most of them sit near the front... but every now and then one of them is an usher). I take the time during the "Welcome" song where everybody is hugging and shaking hands to identify who might be carrying concealed on their body (you can see a lot of possible tells from 15 feet up). Then, when the sermon starts is when we count the attendance (we're borderline to needing two services, so we keep track to watch for trends). While counting, I check and see if there is anything that was missed. If something seems suspicious (many people seem out of place at church, so we go up to the "suspicious" level), the plan is to let an usher know, and then the usher can relay that to an LEO (while they sit near the front, every one of them tends to sit on the aisle). In my opinion, the LEO's should have the first opportunity to gain control of the situation. I know most of them personally, and so far most of them know that I carry (only took an hour after submitting my application to spread). I'd like to think that there wouldn't be confusion during a situation, but I'd rather not test that. If it does need to be tested, I have fairly decent cover in my position. Besides, if a weapon is needed, they may have a better line of fire. My only good lines are the aisles.</p><p></p><p>Do I want to have to use my weapon in church? No. It's the last thing I want to do on any given Sunday. I pray every time I strap it on that God grants me the wisdom to know when to use it and the strength to use it without hesitation when needed.</p><p></p><p>Luke 22:36 - "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"</p><p></p><p>Psalm 144:1 - "Blessed is the Lord my Rock, who teacheth my hand to war and my fingers to fight."</p><p></p><p>1 Timothy 5:8 - "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."</p><p></p><p>Exodus 22:2 - "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"</p><p></p><p>Matthew 26:52 - "Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword'"(in context: do not use deadly force inappropriately)</p><p></p><p>Romans 14:1 - "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters." (why I won't judge someone who believes or acts differently as long as it is righteous, and therefore why I won't judge you for believing that guns do not belong in church)</p><p></p><p>And my personal favorite: Proverb 20:30 - "Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, beatings purge the inmost being."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Do I believe that God will protect his flock? Yes, I do. I also don't mind making myself available as a tool for His purpose either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="vvvvvvv, post: 801709, member: 5151"] If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel. The guy next to me in the sound booth feels that way. I'm sure that if my firearm is needed, he'll change his mind. What makes a church safer than any other place? Does your church have metal detectors and pat-downs at the door? Mine doesn't, but I'm in a small town. What about LEO's? I think only two (maybe three) of the LEO's that attend my church carry off duty, and they don't regularly attend. We have a pretty good cop-to-congregant ratio in our small church. Most churches are great soft targets. Many churches allow people to come and go as they please. Most churches don't pay attention to body language that could be signs of potential trouble. Here's what I do at church. When people start coming in, I start identifying who is who. Who's the regulars. Who's from around town, and what are their beliefs (it's a small town, so if someone has it out for the church, everyone will hear about it if it is a local). Who's the LEO's in attendance, and where are they seated (unfortunately, in our church most of them sit near the front... but every now and then one of them is an usher). I take the time during the "Welcome" song where everybody is hugging and shaking hands to identify who might be carrying concealed on their body (you can see a lot of possible tells from 15 feet up). Then, when the sermon starts is when we count the attendance (we're borderline to needing two services, so we keep track to watch for trends). While counting, I check and see if there is anything that was missed. If something seems suspicious (many people seem out of place at church, so we go up to the "suspicious" level), the plan is to let an usher know, and then the usher can relay that to an LEO (while they sit near the front, every one of them tends to sit on the aisle). In my opinion, the LEO's should have the first opportunity to gain control of the situation. I know most of them personally, and so far most of them know that I carry (only took an hour after submitting my application to spread). I'd like to think that there wouldn't be confusion during a situation, but I'd rather not test that. If it does need to be tested, I have fairly decent cover in my position. Besides, if a weapon is needed, they may have a better line of fire. My only good lines are the aisles. Do I want to have to use my weapon in church? No. It's the last thing I want to do on any given Sunday. I pray every time I strap it on that God grants me the wisdom to know when to use it and the strength to use it without hesitation when needed. Luke 22:36 - "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'" Psalm 144:1 - "Blessed is the Lord my Rock, who teacheth my hand to war and my fingers to fight." 1 Timothy 5:8 - "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Exodus 22:2 - "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed" Matthew 26:52 - "Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword'"(in context: do not use deadly force inappropriately) Romans 14:1 - "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters." (why I won't judge someone who believes or acts differently as long as it is righteous, and therefore why I won't judge you for believing that guns do not belong in church) And my personal favorite: Proverb 20:30 - "Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, beatings purge the inmost being." Do I believe that God will protect his flock? Yes, I do. I also don't mind making myself available as a tool for His purpose either. [/QUOTE]
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