CBI pistol powder data

Dumpstick

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I'm going to start a new thread. I want to get this out of the purchase thread, so I can come back and update a clean thread as I shoot the data. Folks are always combing the web for data, this may help.
So far only 357 Mag with 1 cast bullet weight, but I plan to shoot different cartridges and weights, as I get the urge.

357 Mag -
Fired from a 4" Ruger Security Six
Lee TL358-158-RN. My home cast of 50/50 CWW/Pb weighs 160gr.
1.630 OAL (crimped in the first 'groove' - one 'shoulder' out of the case. Tumble-lube. Chrono 10 ft from muzzle.
CCI SP primers, Fed brass.
Fired 12 rounds each, some didn't read. Rounds registered noted.

6.0gr (1.02cc AutoDisc) 963 fps, 138 ES, 48.7 SD 8 shots
6.4gr (1.09cc AutoDisc) 994 fps, 128 ES, 38.4 SD 11 shots
6.8gr (1.18cc AutoDisc) 1041 fps, 116 ES, 38.5 SD 10 shots
7.3gr (1.26cc AutoDisc) 1099 fps, 146 ES, 54.6 SD 9 shots - slightly compressed powder charge

Notes - I didn't shoot for accuracy, but it looks like 6.4 - 6.8 range would make a very nice midrange load. Should easily make 1025-1100 fps in a 6" barrel.
- All weights shot very clean; no soot on the brass at all. Very little smoke, and that probably from the tumble lube.
- I had some sticky ejection at 6.8gr, but scrubbed the chambers and it cleared up. No problem @ 7.3gr.
 

Dumpstick

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357 Mag -
Fired from 4" Ruger Security Six
NOE TL-358-175-RF. My home cast of 50/50 CWW/Pb weighs 182gr.
1.610 OAL, crimped in crimp groove. Tumble-lube.
CCI SP primers, Fed brass.
Fired 12 rounds each load, they all registered. Chrono 10 ft from muzzle.

5.2gr (.88cc Lee AutoDisc) 753 fps, 117 ES, 39 SD
5.5gr (.95cc Lee AutoDisc) 854 fps, 121 ES, 46 SD
6.0gr (1.02cc Lee AutoDisc) 914 fps, 97 ES, 31.9 SD
6.4gr (1.09cc Lee AutoDisc) 973 fps, 118 ES, 41.6 SD
6.8gr (1.18cc Lee AutoDisc) 1025fps, 90 ES, 25.5 SD

- Again, I did not shoot for accuracy, but all these loads easily stayed within 4" at 11 yards. I was mostly looking to avoid shooting the Chrono.
- This is a very clean-burning powder. No soot at all, even on the lower load levels.
- This powder seems to be slightly position sensitive, especially at the lower volume load levels. I was storing the rounds nose down, loading the same way. The first round from a cylinder was markedly lower velocity than the rest. Once I figured out what was happening I started shaking the revolver front to back before shooting, trying to level the powder. The numbers evened out.
NOE TL358-175-RF.JPG
 
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PanhandleGlocker

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357 Mag -
Fired from 4" Ruger Security Six
NOE TL-358-175-RF. My home cast of 50/50 CWW/Pb weighs 182gr.
1.610 OAL, crimped in crimp groove. Tumble-lube.
CCI SP primers, Fed brass.
Fired 12 rounds each load, they all registered. Chrono 10 ft from muzzle.

5.2gr (.88cc Lee AutoDisc) 753 fps, 117 ES, 39 SD
5.5gr (.95cc Lee AutoDisc) 854 fps, 121 ES, 46 SD
6.0gr (1.02cc Lee AutoDisc) 914 fps, 97 ES, 31.9 SD
6.4gr (1.09cc Lee AutoDisc) 973 fps, 118 ES, 41.6 SD

- Again, I did not shoot for accuracy, but all these loads easily stayed within 4" at 11 yards. I was mostly looking to avoid shooting the Chrono.
- This is a very clean-burning powder. No soot at all, even on the lower load levels.
- This powder seems to be slightly position sensitive, especially at the lower volume load levels. I was storing the rounds nose down, loading the same way. The first round from a cylinder was markedly lower velocity than the rest. Once I figured out what was happening I started shaking the revolver front to back before shooting, trying to level the powder. The numbers evened out.
View attachment 296215

Very interesting. Would a magnum primer help with the lower velocity issue? Maybe no need to try to level the powder out.

Also.. Not that familiar with lead bullets but Is it a crimp groove or technically a lube groove?
 

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Very interesting. Would a magnum primer help with the lower velocity issue? Maybe no need to try to level the powder out.

Also.. Not that familiar with lead bullets but Is it a crimp groove or technically a lube groove?
I don't know if a mag primer will help, but I can find out. I have just about enough of this lot of brass to reshoot the 6.4gr load, and shoot one higher.
I have the same bullet in gas check, and I want to shoot it faster.

As for the grooves, if you expand the pic you should be able to see that the top groove is shaped differently than the others. It is indeed a crimp groove.

Although it doesn't really make a difference with these bullets.
 

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I don't know if a mag primer will help, but I can find out. I have just about enough of this lot of brass to reshoot the 6.4gr load, and shoot one higher.
I have the same bullet in gas check, and I want to shoot it faster.

As for the grooves, if you expand the pic you should be able to see that the top groove is shaped differently than the others. It is indeed a crimp groove.

Although it doesn't really make a difference with these bullets.

I’d be interested to see if mag primer makes any difference.

Oh ok I see it now. 4 lube grooves and a crimp groove.
 

Dumpstick

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Re-shot the 6.4gr (1.09cc AutoDisc) load, using CCI SP Magnum primers. This was the load with the NOE 175 (182 as cast) bullet.

Reg primer - 973 MV, 118 ES, 41.6 SD
Mag primer - 987 MV, 114 ES, 34.7 SD

Some difference, sure. But, enough to make a difference ? I don't know. And, it's a 12 shot test. Not really enough to clear the fog of a small batch.

I also shot another load, which I edited in on post #2, just to keep it all in one place.

6.8gr (Lee 1.18cc AutoDisc) 1025 fps, 90 ES, 25.5 SD

Notes on the 6.8gr load -
- First, I'm considering it max. I started to get sticky extraction. After the first bump of the extractor the cases fell out, but still. I looked at the primers and cannot see any flattening, but I'm using CCI primers, which are known for being harder than most. Someone else may take it another step, I'm not.

- Second, the accuracy was noticeably better with the 6.8gr load. However, I used gas check bullets on this load. Was it the powder charge that caused the accuracy difference, or the gas check? I don't know. The internal ballistics support the heavier powder charge being at least part of the answer.

- Third. If I run the numbers on just the last cylinder (6 rounds) fired of the 6.8gr load this is what I get:
1036 fps, 21 ES, 7.1 SD
Quite a difference from the aggregate. What happened there? I have no idea. Loaded in sequence with the rest of the rounds.
 

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Time for some more data:

44 Mag
Fired from a Taurus M44 6-5/8" barrel, factory back-bored and ported. Effectively a 5.75" barrel.
Lee TL430-240-SWC COL 1.655"
PMC brass, trimmed to 1.275".
S&B LPP.

Lee bullet seated in until 2 "shoulders" are out of the case. Here it is.
44Mag Lee 240TL SWC.JPG


All powder charges weighed. 12 rounds fired of each load.
Chrony 10' from muzzle

9.5 gr 1122 fps, ES 44, SD 12.4 - 11 rounds registered
10.0gr 1150 fps, ES 23, SD 6.7 - very accurate
10.5gr 1163 fps, ES 49, SD 17.2 - sticky extraction. I consider this max.

Notes -
- the 10.0 gr load was very accurate. I yanked the trigger once, and have one unexplained flyer (probably me), but the rest easily went into a 3" circle at 50 feet. Iron sights, rested. For my money, the best load is going to be somewhere in the 9.5 - 10.0 grain area. I may shoot a 9.0 and 8.5 gr load. If I do, I'll edit.

- at 10.5 gr powder, the extraction was very sticky. I'm not going any higher.

- The ES and SD cleaned up dramatically from earlier tests. Maybe because I weighed the charges instead of volumetric loading? Maybe because the cases were pretty much full? I don't know.

- Again I noticed that this is a very clean-burning powder. Almost no smoke, and what there was could be attributed to the tumble-lube on the bullets.

- I originally thought this powder was somewhere a bit faster than Herco in the burn chart. It certainly didn't act that way in this test. It acted faster than Unique/Universal. This is a hard powder to pin down. The recoil in this testing was snappy - like a faster powder.

- I think this powder prefers a heavier bullet, and a case more full than not.
CBI 44Mag 10gr #2.JPG


Edited to add COL, pic of load, pic of target.
 
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Dumpstick

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Adding more 44 Mag data. I tried to edit the above post, but can't for whatever reason. These loads were very accurate.

The numbers point to the 10.0gr load, but the targets point to the 8.5gr. Or, maybe I was having a better day.

Same parameters as above, same revolver, projectile, brass, OAL, etc.
Chrony was about 15' from muzzle, a bit farther than last time.

8.5gr 975 fps, ES 72, SD 19.7 - 11 rounds registered
9.0gr 1053 fps, ES 57, SD 15.05

Pics of the targets; 33 ft., rested. Black dot is 3" across. 12 shots in each group.
m44 CBI 8.5gr.JPG

M44 CBI 9.0gr.JPG
 

PanhandleGlocker

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Adding more 44 Mag data. I tried to edit the above post, but can't for whatever reason. These loads were very accurate.

The numbers point to the 10.0gr load, but the targets point to the 8.5gr. Or, maybe I was having a better day.

Same parameters as above, same revolver, projectile, brass, OAL, etc.
Chrony was about 15' from muzzle, a bit farther than last time.

8.5gr 975 fps, ES 72, SD 19.7 - 11 rounds registered
9.0gr 1053 fps, ES 57, SD 15.05

Pics of the targets; 33 ft., rested. Black dot is 3" across. 12 shots in each group.
View attachment 308197
View attachment 308199

Nice shootin’!
 

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