Colorado Restoration of Gray Wolves initiative qualifies for 2020 ballot

[CHenry]

Got to disagree with you on this one Dennishoddy. Wolfs pick off the weak and injured of big game species. They will eat whatever they can catch of smaller animals like rabbits and they do make game more wary so they are harder to hunt. But they do not destroy herds.


"According to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, elk numbers have increased over the last 25 years in every state with wolves – including Oregon. The fall 2009 edition of the Bugle states that over the last 15 years while Montana’s wolf population has grown from 48 to 497, elk numbers have increased from 94,000 to 150,000. Meanwhile, the success rate of elk hunters increased from 16.7% to 21.5%!

Wolves are opportunistic and therefore much more likely to harvest the weakest animals and in turn increase the overall fitness of prey species. Trophy human hunters on the other hand are more likely to kill the biggest, fittest animals."

And thank you....sheesh...

 

[Cowcatcher]

It's all pretty well documented, like Rick said. Additionally, in areas where heards are, the ecosystems have boomed, most notably in fauna. As predators give chase, heards spend more time on the hoof, allowing more areas to grow more food. More food equals larger populations.

Hard to give an example of Oklahoma as our country and ranching is completely different on a much smaller scale. We still mimic predator behavior though. While lazy ranchers will drop feed for cattle, successful ranchers move their cattle around to different sections, allowing the fauna to recuperate. Wolves reintroduced this natural regeneration method to wild populations. It's a good thing.

Look on the bright side... eventually, some thin-bearded granola hipster will film himself trying to pet a wolf, and that video will be tragically hilarious.

I’m interested in your definition of “successful rancher”. Are you speaking about whether they are profitable or not? Or is it more of a success that they can maintain a herd without feed?

 

[Cowcatcher]

If memory serves, right or wrong, some states were paying folks to kill wolves a year or so ago. I’m pretty sure it was Idaho and maybe Oregon. I do remember hunters were getting paid $1,000 a wolf.

 

[Rollpin]

Ferrel hog control comes to mind.

The areas where they will be restored don't have a major hog problem, at least yet.

Colorado's hog problem is in the south east for the most part.

There's already wolves in CO from Wyoming. They should just let it take its course and be prepared for a bunch of dead wolves. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is completely against the measure, as is CPW.

 

[CHenry]

Please describe to me how the ecosystem in Colorado or even Oklahoma has suffered without the wolves being there with a historical population they both had in the past?
.

The areas where they will be restored don't have a major hog problem, at least yet.

Colorado's hog problem is in the south east for the most part.

There's already wolves in CO from Wyoming. They should just let it take its course and be prepared for a bunch of dead wolves. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is completely against the measure, as is CPW.

Oklahoma does and thats whatI quoted dennis for.
If OK had wolves we would have MUCH fewer issues with hogs.

 

[Rollpin]

So these random packs of feral dogs that kill more cattle than anything else... do they make an impact on hogs?

If OK had wolves, we would have much fewer issues with a lot of things. But that doesn't make all those things good to not have issue with.

It's not been good for Yellowstone's Elk:

Some of the stats -

• Kill rates by wolves in winter are 22 ungulates per wolf per year – higher than the 12 ungulates per wolf rate predicted in the ESA.
• Since 2000, wolves have caused 45 percent of known deaths and 75 percent of predation deaths (not including human harvests) of radio-collared female elk on the northern range. By comparison, human harvest and winter-kill accounted for 30 percent and 8 percent respectively of the known deaths.
• The average annual harvest of 1,372 elk during the Gardiner late elk hunts from 1995 to 2004 was higher than the long-term average of 1,014 elk during 1976-1994. Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has reduced antlerless permits by 51 percent from 2,882 to 1,400 during 2000-2004 and recently proposed 100 permits for 2006 – a 96 percent decrease from the 2,660 permits issued in 1995.
  

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/gray-wolves-impact-elk

That's freaking alarming.

 

[dennishoddy]

So these random packs of feral dogs that kill more cattle than anything else... do they make an impact on hogs?

If OK had wolves, we would have much fewer issues with a lot of things. But that doesn't make all those things good to not have issue with.

It's not been good for Yellowstone's Elk:

Some of the stats -

• Kill rates by wolves in winter are 22 ungulates per wolf per year – higher than the 12 ungulates per wolf rate predicted in the ESA.
• Since 2000, wolves have caused 45 percent of known deaths and 75 percent of predation deaths (not including human harvests) of radio-collared female elk on the northern range. By comparison, human harvest and winter-kill accounted for 30 percent and 8 percent respectively of the known deaths.
• The average annual harvest of 1,372 elk during the Gardiner late elk hunts from 1995 to 2004 was higher than the long-term average of 1,014 elk during 1976-1994. Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has reduced antlerless permits by 51 percent from 2,882 to 1,400 during 2000-2004 and recently proposed 100 permits for 2006 – a 96 percent decrease from the 2,660 permits issued in 1995.
  

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/gray-wolves-impact-elk

That's freaking alarming.

Thanks for the reality check, and I sure don’t want wolves re-introduced back into Ok because of a preconceived notion that they would help with the wild pig population as an excuse.

 

[jakeman]

So these random packs of feral dogs that kill more cattle than anything else... do they make an impact on hogs?

If OK had wolves, we would have much fewer issues with a lot of things. But that doesn't make all those things good to not have issue with.

It's not been good for Yellowstone's Elk:

Some of the stats -

• Kill rates by wolves in winter are 22 ungulates per wolf per year – higher than the 12 ungulates per wolf rate predicted in the ESA.
• Since 2000, wolves have caused 45 percent of known deaths and 75 percent of predation deaths (not including human harvests) of radio-collared female elk on the northern range. By comparison, human harvest and winter-kill accounted for 30 percent and 8 percent respectively of the known deaths.
• The average annual harvest of 1,372 elk during the Gardiner late elk hunts from 1995 to 2004 was higher than the long-term average of 1,014 elk during 1976-1994. Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has reduced antlerless permits by 51 percent from 2,882 to 1,400 during 2000-2004 and recently proposed 100 permits for 2006 – a 96 percent decrease from the 2,660 permits issued in 1995.

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/gray-wolves-impact-elk

That's freaking alarming.

That's not alarming. Those numbers are old, some of them 20 years old.


https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/presence-of-wolves

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thi...imated-7-10-million-in-annual-tourism-revenue

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/news/yellowstone-is-wolf-country-once-again


There are more. Lots more. From the same exact source as yours.

The wolf has been beneficial to the park as a whole, including the overall health of the Elk herd.

 

[TwoForFlinching]

I’m interested in your definition of “successful rancher”. Are you speaking about whether they are profitable or not? Or is it more of a success that they can maintain a herd without feed?

No offense man. Talking about big time outfits in Mountain West states. Those that have a million acres and thousands of cattle. Whereas across Oklahoma, the vast majority is the casual rancher like my grandpa was. Hundred head at the top of his game, not enough land to grow larger.

 

[Okie4570]

What's the estimated loss of livestock in those western states?