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Concealed Carry Ballistics: Challenging the Stopping Power Conventional Wisdom

Discussion in 'Self Defense and Handgun Carry' started by docohm, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Ethan N

    Ethan N Sharpshooter

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    It does hurt pretty bad, I’ve been told. I hope to never find out for myself. And, as they say, a psychological stop is as good as any other stop. But better not count on a psychological stop.
     
  2. Ethan N

    Ethan N Sharpshooter

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    Without a doubt. In fact, if I only had standard JHP available to me (or even Hydra-Shok) I wouldn’t feel adequately armed carrying a 9mm.
     
  3. lasher

    lasher Sharpshooter

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    there are millions of dead men since WWII that were shot to death by FMJ
     
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  4. dennishoddy

    dennishoddy Sharpshooter

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    They conveniently didn't mention that fact when the FBI said "some" were having issues with recoil.
     
  5. dennishoddy

    dennishoddy Sharpshooter

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    There is a reason for follow up shots hitting low and left. It's cause by your grip of the firearm. It's called "milking" the grip. It's common but correctible with dry fire. You would probably do the same with 9mm or even .22 rimfire at rapid fire.
     
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  6. Tanis143

    Tanis143 Sharpshooter

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    Yes, I did read that. And you probably were typing that as I posted my reply. For me, it makes more economical sense to carry a .40 with regular JHP over a 9mm with premium ammo. For instance: Hornady Critical Defense is 19.49 for a box of 25 115gr 9mm. I buy Federal Train + Protect 180gr JHP for 24.99 for a box of 50. I use that ammo in my EDC plus spare mag (25 rounds) and my nightstand firearm and spare mag (spare mag isn't full, but 25 rounds should do, if not I keep my safe unlocked when home and all the firearms are loaded).

    While switching back to 9mm might be good for LEO's, especially due to rounds carried and recoil, .40 S&W still seems to be the winner for my own protection. Not saying you or the FBI is wrong, just giving my reasons. In the end it all boils down to what you are comfortable with.
     
  7. Tanis143

    Tanis143 Sharpshooter

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    Yeah, noticed two causes. At times I push the trigger backwards instead of pulling and doing what you described. I've been working on both with snap caps and a laser sight. I snap off 5 shots in DA while trying to keep the laser in a small circle on the wall.
     
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  8. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If all I had was FMJ in 9mm, I wouldn’t quake in fear, nah, not even. I’d be fine carrying plain old ball ammo until I could replenish my stock with something better like HST, Gold Dots, or Critical Defense. Sure standard 9mm JHP and certainly FMJ (ball) are in no way as good as a quality Bonded Jacketed HP round. But as was pointed out by @lasher, a whole buncha bad guys have been shot dead with ball ammo. People scoff at FMJ; but one positive factor in its favor is it generally feeds and functions very well in about any pistol. Some modern JHP or BJHP won’t be quite so reliable in some pistols though. You have to test until you’re satisfied. A negative thing about FMJ is it won’t expand. It will just poke a hole of the diameter of the bullet in you. Oh; is that all? I dunno about you guys, but I don’t think I want any really hot pieces of lead poking holes in me. Imagine taking two hits to the sternum with plain old 9mm ball ammo. ( Crack goes your breastbone; make a wish!) Now, you think you are still going to try to do bad things? Odds are going down...betcha it’s gonna give a bad guy a “pause to consider” moment anyway, and during that pause, another ball round or two might poke a hole in his forehead, and that will solve the issue, regardless of jacket separation or failure to expand or whatever. Another factor about various pistol caliber rounds whether 9mm, .40, or .45... they are still just pistol rounds coming out of a short barrel. So, I don’t carry ball ammo, because the good stuff is better. But even the best of the premium pistol rounds is still just a pistol round. Poke some holes in the bad guy and press the fight until you decide it’s over. I have seen many and felt one gunshot wound. They hurt like hell! Shock will often incapacitate a bad guy quickly; no one really wants to get shot. Shock comes from sudden impact, pain, and the psychological realization that you have just been shot. Oh; and blood loss.

    Everyone has an opinion, I say carry what runs your gun, what you can shoot it well with, and carry on.

    (ps: I normally use Fed HST 124gr, the same in Gold Dots, or Hornady Critical Defense 115gr. I buy enough to rotate it through every so often. I’m sure there are others out there just as good, maybe better, but I know and trust those three and can often find good sales on them. It’s not uncommon to find HST at less than $20 per box of 50 these days. At that price, buy ‘em cheap and stack ‘em deep).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
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  9. Ethan N

    Ethan N Sharpshooter

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    I’m not saying FMJ 9mm can’t kill someone, but I’m more concerned about the chances it won’t work in a self-defense shooting than the chances it will. Like you said, carry what you shoot well with and what you’re comfortable with. Here’s why I’m not comfortable with ball ammo for personal defense…

    Psychological stops are great when they happen, which is most of the time, but I’m not comfortable betting my life on a psychological stop. For me, the risk of encountering an attacker who doesn’t feel pain, is not afraid of being shot again, etc., is too great for me to be comfortable relying on the least effective type of ammo (ball) in a whole category of relatively ineffective ammo. All pistol caliber ammunition leaves a lot of room for an attacker to still be physically capable of continuing the attack if they have the will to do so. There are way too many instances of bad guys continuing to be a deadly threat after being hit with multiple pistol rounds (speaking of which, Active Self Protection is a great YouTube channel). Physical incapacitation is the only sure way to stop an attacker, and I’m not crazy about my chances of accomplishing that reliably with any pistol ammo, let alone ball. Most of the rounds I would fire in a defensive shooting are going to miss, and the ones that hit aren’t going to go exactly where I want them. So expansion is essential to maximize the chances of significant blood loss or central nervous system damage and ultimately physically incapacitate the attacker.

    If the equation is different for anyone else and they’re fine with ball ammo for personal defense, I don’t have a problem with that as long as they’ve made a good effort to be thoroughly educated about their choice.
     
  10. Ethan N

    Ethan N Sharpshooter

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    I just remembered that the other reason carrying ball ammo would make me nervous is the significantly greater potential for over-penetration. Every bullet has a lawyer behind it (and rightfully so).
     

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