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Wasn't pointing fingers at anyone here, just a general observation about things I have witnessed.
An education is a wonderful thing. As all the posters here seem to be aware, our Universities are propaganda industries today. Victor Davis Hanson reigns supreme on the topic. But when PhD and Professors such as he and Jordan Peterson attest to the truth that our universities today do more harm than good you know “jobs” don’t sum up our predicament.
I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1972 because I wanted to be educated and the GI Bill was an avenue for poor families. That was before access to the internet was widespread. I was 35 before work allowed me the opportunity at nights in college. I’m glad I did, but by then I had a blue collar mindset. I still wanted an education beyond my craft. But I’ve a little distain for ideologues who never got their hands dirty in the physical world wanting to tell the working man how he should interpret it.
That doesn’t exactly answer the original question but its what I think on the topic. Always liked this from a man too soon gone.
“There are only two kinds of men in this world: Honest men and dishonest men. There are black men and white men and yellow men and red men, but nothing counts except whether they’re honest men or dishonest men.”
“Any man who says the world owes him a living is dishonest. The same God that made you and me made this earth. And he planned it so that it would yield every single thing that the people on it need. But He was careful to plan it so that it would only yield up its wealth in exchange for the labor of man. Any man who tries to share in that wealth without contributing the work of his brain or his hands is dishonest”.
Charley Moody
I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1972 because I wanted to be educated and the GI Bill was an avenue for poor families. That was before access to the internet was widespread. I was 35 before work allowed me the opportunity at nights in college. I’m glad I did, but by then I had a blue collar mindset. I still wanted an education beyond my craft. But I’ve a little distain for ideologues who never got their hands dirty in the physical world wanting to tell the working man how he should interpret it.
That doesn’t exactly answer the original question but its what I think on the topic. Always liked this from a man too soon gone.
“There are only two kinds of men in this world: Honest men and dishonest men. There are black men and white men and yellow men and red men, but nothing counts except whether they’re honest men or dishonest men.”
“Any man who says the world owes him a living is dishonest. The same God that made you and me made this earth. And he planned it so that it would yield every single thing that the people on it need. But He was careful to plan it so that it would only yield up its wealth in exchange for the labor of man. Any man who tries to share in that wealth without contributing the work of his brain or his hands is dishonest”.
Charley Moody
There is absolutely no reason to take out a loan to go to school. There are thousands of ways to pay for school without taking out a loan. School loans are the worst form of consumer borrowing, and it ain't even close. Credit Cards are a distant, distant 2nd, but I'm not sure they're even in the same galaxy as school loans. I don't give a deuce what the degree is in. Pay for it. Work your way thru, or save until you can pay as you go. Do not take out a school loan.
Furthermore loan payments that go directly to the student that get spent on living expenses, beer, clothes, travel, pizza, cars, gas or fuel, etc, etc, etc are the bane of society.
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I have a BS in Environmental Health Science and an MPH in Occupational Health and Safety Management. I shifted away from EH/OH work in 2007.
Not sure that I'd go to college if I had it do all over again . . . or at least not to a 4-year college. I'd likely do the vo-tech route.
Not sure that I'd go to college if I had it do all over again . . . or at least not to a 4-year college. I'd likely do the vo-tech route.
If you are talking about scholarships, don't count on it if you are a white male, in good health, middle class and not anything extremely high on the ACT or GPA. Your 'normal' non-minority kid is screwed as for available money.
When my youngest was looking for scholarships, we bought the books, went to the websites etc. If he was a female, no parents, from Pakistan, had one leg, was blind or I was in prison, he could have had college paid for easily. But being an average white kid with parents who work hard, decent grades and a 27 ACT, the scholarships are limited. At least that was the case about 7-8 years ago and I doubt it has changed if not even worse.
He did get two, one from the ladies at church (you basically had to apply and you got it) and the second from his college for his ACT score. Both were minimal amounts but all of it helped since I as paying the rest. No loans for him as I have stated previously, I am against debt.
I'm not.
I'm talking about work. Before & after school. Summers. Work study. Employer reimbursements, etc, etc, etc.
There are untold ways of getting a college degree without taking out school loans.
I knew a guy that worked his way thru night law school, at Tulsa no less. You wanna know why, because that bastard really, really wanted to be a lawyer. He ran the Housing Authority in Muskogee, full time, the boss of the whole outfit, and he drove into Downtown Tulsa every night, both terms and summers to take classes. He took him a while, but I never knew a guy that was as proud of his degree as that guy was.
That is just anecdotal evidence, but the fact remains, if you want that degree bad enough, you can get it without taking out a loan. I have no sympathy for those that are buried under school loans. They did it to themselves. Life is about choices. When you make bad ones, you gotta pay the price.
Good for you and your son. Well done.
100% agree. I grew up in a working class family, one that knew how to work hard (but not smart, in my opinion). I graduated somewhere in the middle of my high school class and started working my way through college; attending part time at night while working 40hrs/week during the day. Along the way, I gained valuable experience in a variety of fields, and cultivated a solid network of relationships. The phrase "it's not always what you know, but who you know" holds a lot of truth. I've probably held a dozen jobs since high school and I think I only landed one where I didn't have someone I knew already working there recommending me.
Anyway, I learned a lot about how things work in the corporate world, enough to know that the degree I was originally seeking would not allow me to have the sort of income I was looking for. It took seemingly forever and I was fortunate to work for a couple companies who had tuition reimbursement program that I took heavy advantage of, but I graduated without any college loan debt and have been able to provide for my family much better than my parents did. My kids are now in college and I am helping them with their tuition, but they are also working and paying for a good chunk of it. I feel it means more to them, having them write that check out of their own accounts. One is on a pre-med track and the other is studying biomedical engineering. I believe both of their choices will set them up for success, regardless of what career path they eventually end up on.
I wish more parents would sit down with their children and truly discuss the advantages and disadvantages to higher education. Potential students need to be told they can succeed in life with a degree as well as without a degree. Several examples might be helpful to make the point. Growing up in a small town in Montana, a classmate of mine decided to go to university. After graduation, he took a laborer job, and spent his free time writing his first novel. His novel was made into a movie that starred Robert Redford. In that same town, a friend of mine's older brother attended university for one or two years' then, dropped out. He was not interested in school so much; but, he was extremely interested in discovering dinosaurs in Montana. Because of his interest, he became one of the foremost authorities in the world on that subject, and was even featured by 60 minutes, consulted by the director for the Jurassic Park movie(s), and later was granted Professor status at one of the Montana Universities. So my point is, if a student truly thinks going to college or university will benefit him or her; then, by all means go. But be aware that, if you find your calling, a degree is not the only way to succeed in life.
Not necessarily true. My kid started at OSU last week as a freshman. He studied hard in HS and we are white, upper middle class and some may even consider us wealthy due to our incomes. I don't see us that way considering our careers. I'm sort of a blue collar sales guy and wife does very well in her white collar real commercial estate career. My son received almost $14K in academic scholarships due to his hard work in high school and he only averaged a 3.75 gpa but took some AP classes and we were diligent as parents to make sure he kept them up. money is out there if your kid applies themselves and does there part to assist with college tuition. We are paying for the remainder of his costs to attend college. Both of our parents paid for our college so we are doing it for him.
A job that requires a degree will knock you in the head and replace you tomorrow. A job that requires skill in a trade knows your worth. 
Ps, I have a bs and a masters and they are both packed away in a box somewhere.
Ps, I have a bs and a masters and they are both packed away in a box somewhere.
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