Degree or no degree?? Let's agree to disagree

[OKCHunter]

I graduated from college with a BS in Geology and a minor in Computer Science. That degree was relevant during my time, and I had a good career of 30 plus years. I retired in 2019 at 57 years old.

The key to a college degree - find something you love AND is in demand so that you can make a good living. Left-handed BB stacking won’t get you anywhere.

If I was starting today, I’d definitely be looking into one of the trades.

 

[Dorkus]

Not necessarily true. My kid started at OSU last week as a freshman. He studied hard in HS and we are white, upper middle class and some may even consider us wealthy due to our incomes. I don't see us that way considering our careers. I'm sort of a blue collar sales guy and wife does very well in her white collar real commercial estate career. My son received almost $14K in academic scholarships due to his hard work in high school and he only averaged a 3.75 gpa but took some AP classes and we were diligent as parents to make sure he kept them up. money is out there if your kid applies themselves and does there part to assist with college tuition. We are paying for the remainder of his costs to attend college. Both of our parents paid for our college so we are doing it for him.

I am very happy that your son got those scholarships but he is what I would call an above average scholastic student with a 3.8 gpa. My point was for the 'average kid', not the super smart ones. Scholarships are out there for most average type students unless they are in a certain demographic, like mine was.

 

[wawazat]

My wife and I talk about this a lot regarding the kids. I got a full ride to UCO and got a business degree with a focus on employment law. It was purely to check a box for the job I was seeking out at the time and has been absolutely useless for anything more than that. She joined the Air Guard to get her business degree paid for. I think if the only way someone can attend college is to go into debt, they will not see the jump start to their earning potential that a degree may provide. Paying off the school debt will more than absorb any extra earning potential.

I hold to the belief as mentioned many times in this thread that if a young person can find where a marketable skill (college or trade school) overlaps with something they have a passion for, they will have the best chance of being successful at something they enjoy doing. My son isn't a huge fan of school, but we put in the work at home helping him with things he is struggling with so he at least doesnt get overwhelmed. He really enjoys history and science, but I am not sure he and math will ever be friends haha.

I also think he will benefit with some extra time after high school to mature a little more before thinking about jumping into pursuing a degree if that is the path he chooses. I would've certainly benefitted from a few years of growing up before picking a 4 year training program to drive the rest of my working life. I really think this is where military would benefit a lot more young adults than take advantage of it. My wife and I do agree that there are many great traits to be gained through military experience that cannot be gained any other way. It is certainly one of my biggest regrets in how I navigated life through my late teens and twenties.

My daughter is completely polar to her brother. She is a sponge for information and actively seeks out answers to whichever random question pops into her head. Her curiosity and drive to find answers will serve her well, we just have to find ways to expose her to enough experiences and topics that she can figure out which types of things give her the most satisfaction to figure out.

In the end, I think degree, trade school, entrepreneur, career military, etc. will benefit the people that are naturally driven down the path. Forcing someone to pursue something they have no interest in is an injustice to their quality of life. I think a lot of it is driven by trying to live vicariously through our kids and having tunnel vision on what success is based on our own choices and regrets.

 

[Range Plunker]

Years ago, I worked with an attorney, who managed to pay for his education by taking a second mortgage on his house. Then, upon graduation from law school, he sold his home including both the first and second mortgage. In essence, the new buyer paid for his law degree. Apart from his story, I paid for most of my graduate studies by working as a Resident Director, which involved managing a resident hall. At the time, the University paid 75% of my tuition, a salary, an apartment including weekly cleaning, food, and the ability to rent my apartment during the summer. So, those interested in going to a higher education institution should explore all opportunities including work for the school itself.

 

[okcBob]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/...33krJf39s1jq_RZt1SAlqgsLpRy_yz8xvjUn8eeEB9zfk
Thought this was funny. The new Chaplin is an atheist. You can’t make this stuff up…

 

[CoolShi7Designer]

My $0.02
I have a Mechanical Engineering degree. There is a lot about going to college that IS valuable. Time management on multiple, disparate topics, learning to find your own resources (people, knowledge, stuff) to get a project done, Calculus and physics (rarely numerically, daily for conceptual and theoretical), *How to read a scientific research paper and how statistics work and are manipulated* (these 2 skills have kept me from being "baffled-by-bullspit" more than any others).
I will say the University system sucks ass and is almost completely taught by adjunct professors and Grad-student TAs. Seeing a live in-person professor is basically as rare as actually seeing your doctor vs the dozens of RN's.
If i hadn't picked a legit useful degree that's let me get good jobs, i can't imagine carrying the debt working at starbucks (who, as of 2016, was the largest employer of people with psychology and sociology degrees in the country. They make interesting baristas apparently...)
If I could have done all 4 years at a community college, I would have. Way cheaper, direct access to the teachers, and lots of working class adults getting certs for stuff like welding, SAE, machining etc. WAY more normal people in general.
Context: I went to Portland State University. it was like walking through a ripleys believe it or not everyday. friggin commies, dudes in bikinis, unicycles, therapy iguanas, vegans, everything is about "awareness" of some ridiculous cause, getting rid of Cis-gendered white men and homosexualizing the whole earth. it was bonkers. Thank god for the guys on their G.I. bill. those guys are how i got into guns and planes and other military stuff and they kept me sane.

 

[Snattlerake]

My $0.02
I have a Mechanical Engineering degree. There is a lot about going to college that IS valuable. Time management on multiple, disparate topics, learning to find your own resources (people, knowledge, stuff) to get a project done, Calculus and physics (rarely numerically, daily for conceptual and theoretical), *How to read a scientific research paper and how statistics work and are manipulated* (these 2 skills have kept me from being "baffled-by-bullspit" more than any others).
I will say the University system sucks ass and is almost completely taught by adjunct professors and Grad-student TAs. Seeing a live in-person professor is basically as rare as actually seeing your doctor vs the dozens of RN's.
If i hadn't picked a legit useful degree that's let me get good jobs, i can't imagine carrying the debt working at starbucks (who, as of 2016, was the largest employer of people with psychology and sociology degrees in the country. They make interesting baristas apparently...)
If I could have done all 4 years at a community college, I would have. Way cheaper, direct access to the teachers, and lots of working class adults getting certs for stuff like welding, SAE, machining etc. WAY more normal people in general.
Context: I went to Portland State University. it was like walking through a ripleys believe it or not everyday. friggin commies, dudes in bikinis, unicycles, therapy iguanas, vegans, everything is about "awareness" of some ridiculous cause, getting rid of Cis-gendered white men and homosexualizing the whole earth. it was bonkers. Thank god for the guys on their G.I. bill. those guys are how i got into guns and planes and other military stuff and they kept me sane.

God Bless you my son! Now go and sin no more!

Dudes in bikinis! And it wasn't part of a skit or play? I went to a small state college which became a university my first year there. I had access to all my instructors. I have minors in sociology and psychology basically because I had to take many of those courses for my major. As you said, thank God you were in the military because I also have a military science minor and eight years of army officer life to keep me grounded. Psych and soc (pronounced soash) were enlightening and useful when dealing with the types of people I had to deal with.

I would probably have starved if I had to work for Starbucks as I hate their philosophy and their coffee.

 

[Parks 788]

A job that requires a degree will knock you in the head and replace you tomorrow. A job that requires skill in a trade knows your worth.

Ps, I have a bs and a masters and they are both packed away in a box somewhere.

Sure, but if you do a chitty job in a career that requires a degree AND/OR you do a chitty job that requires a trade/skill you will get fired jut as fast as the other. It comes down to what your worth is to the company that has hired you. White collar desk job or trade job; you suck or cost the company money and you're gone, period.

 

[Parks 788]

I am very happy that your son got those scholarships but he is what I would call an above average scholastic student with a 3.8 gpa. My point was for the 'average kid', not the super smart ones. Scholarships are out there for most average type students unless they are in a certain demographic, like mine was.

Sorry, this is just incorrect. There is plenty of money out there for even the average student. Not sure how exactly to define average but say 3.0 gpa. Pretty decent grades, do some research on instate or small outof state schools that have a degree your kid is interested in and you will save a bunch of money in tuition. Free? No. but not everyone needs to go to a nationally known college or university to make it big in life. you gotta work for the money and work for the education and then work some more to get the career you want to pay for cost of college.

THat being said, college is not for everyone. I hold trade schools in very high regard and think it is a great choice for many kids.

 

[Dorkus]

Sorry, this is just incorrect. There is plenty of money out there for even the average student. Not sure how exactly to define average but say 3.0 gpa. Pretty decent grades, do some research on instate or small outof state schools that have a degree your kid is interested in and you will save a bunch of money in tuition. Free? No. but not everyone needs to go to a nationally known college or university to make it big in life. you gotta work for the money and work for the education and then work some more to get the career you want to pay for cost of college.

THat being said, college is not for everyone. I hold trade schools in very high regard and think it is a great choice for many kids.

We will have to respectfully disagree as we did all that research and dug deep looking. While I do acknowledge, there were opportunities at small private schools but the scholarships available did not make up for the excessively high tuition. The big things that excluded him were our household income and the restrictions to who could get the scholarship. I get that, if I am applying for a "Son's of Fallen Military" scholarship, that should only go to someone that has that life experience.

Now if he was a diabetic, WOW! There at the time were quite a few scholarships for students that had that ailment.

Please remember this is likely dated information as he graduated from college four years ago so things might have changed since then.