DHS responds to 1.6 billion ammo buy

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HMFIC

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Alex Jones isn't the only one reporting what DHS has said. I have heard it on Savage, Levin, and Hannity as well. Just because it doesn't get covered on Fox News does not mean that it is a conspiracy theory. Did you not read the link? DHS is attempting to explain their need for the 1.6 billion rounds of ammo they are buying. DHS is not denying the reports.

No... the articles are very vague and never spell out an admission on the amount of rounds. They simply quote what the rounds are to be used for. We do know that they have ordered rounds, that isn't the point of the issue.

In other words, it would be like me asking you what you use your truck for... you answer to haul pig manure around. Then I turn around and write an article stating that Tuplumber puts 10,000,000 miles on his truck just hauling pig manure around. It's a false premise argument where the question of how many miles you drove was never asked nor answered.
 

Belthos

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This was reported by the Associated Press a day ago.

he government's explanation is much less sinister.

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

- 450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

- 40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

- 176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

- 25,000 blank rounds

The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow-point bullets.


You can read the full article below.
http://news.msn.com/politics/homeland-security-wants-bullets-16-billion-of-them
 

HMFIC

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This was reported by the Associated Press a day ago.

he government's explanation is much less sinister.

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

- 450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

- 40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

- 176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

- 25,000 blank rounds

The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow-point bullets.


You can read the full article below.
http://news.msn.com/politics/homeland-security-wants-bullets-16-billion-of-them


I'm still calling shenanigans until I see the actual request for purchase or bid sheet for all these BILLIONS of rounds. So far... NOBODY has produced one. I've been looking and the closest I found was the one for the reported 21.6 million rounds that turned out to be really only 240,000 rounds.

Just because MSNBC says it, doesn't mean it's true. They provide absolutely no backup source for their information.
 

dennishoddy

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Ok, here is my Question:

If these government agency's are allowed to purchase this ammount of ammo, and it seems like they can practice all they want,
Why is it that the US Army Reserves are only allowed to qualify with 40 rounds a year?

The Ponca City Rifle and Pistol Club, puts on a weapons training exercise every year for the Stillwater Reserve unit. They shoot pistol, rifle, and each gets to shoot a Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle. 100% of the ammo is paid by the club. We have family members getting ready for deployment, and want to make sure they get some training, and trigger time.

After hundreds of rounds each, they use that training to instruct the Women on target program on Sunday. Why does DHS need more than our troops that are getting ready to deploy to stan?
 

SMS

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Not a happy answer Dennis, but the answer is budget and competing resources.

DHS mostly only has to fund personnel, training, small arms, operations and administrivia upkeep. (we won't dive into the tin foil DHS black helos and tanks blah, blah).

Big Green on the other hand has to fund a much larger body of personnel (and higher personnel turnover), small arms, tanks, APCs, aircraft, artillery, administrivia, upkeep of large bases at home and abroad....and sustain operations that include fighting a couple wars.

Couple that with Army leadership that does not value gunfighting and gunfighting skills and you get the 40 rounds a year for reservists.

As for the DHS ammo conspiracy B.S.....it's just that B.S. People that have no clue about how government procurement works, IDIQ contracts, and who don't possess basic math or reading skills love to get their knickers in a wad over it. The fact that any news organizations outside Infodrone picked up on any of it is irrelevant since most of our media sources (including the for-profit commercial enterprise Infowars) are more into sensationalism and profit than fact and information.
 

cjjtulsa

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And yet somehow the DHS didn't dispute the "sensationalism". One would think that if it was that inaccurate, that DHS would be the first to point that out. Thier silence allows some justification to the conspiracy theories. Hey DHS: either call bullsh*t on the erroneous figures, or deal with the suspicion. So far, only a few guys on a semi-local gun forum are the ones debunking the figures. Why didn't those placing the orders do that, rather than just say "it's for training"?

My knickers aren't in a wad, but I'd like to see THEM dispute it.
 

SMS

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And yet somehow the DHS didn't dispute the "sensationalism". One would think that if it was that inaccurate, that DHS would be the first to point that out. Thier silence allows some justification to the conspiracy theories. Hey DHS: either call bullsh*t on the erroneous figures, or deal with the suspicion. So far, only a few guys on a semi-local gun forum are the ones debunking the figures. Why didn't those placing the orders do that, rather than just say "it's for training"?

My knickers aren't in a wad, but I'd like to see THEM dispute it.

Probably because, unlike me, they have learned that nothing will appease the Infowar zombies.

The type of 'suspicion' on this subject goes beyone logic, reason, and math. If you are dealing with people who turn a PO for 240K rounds of ammo into a multi-million round DHS preparing for war 'conspiracy', even when confronted with the facts of procurement codes and math, then there is no point arguing.

"It's right here! The smoking gun! Here's a link to the official PO for millions of rounds of hollow points! DHS is going to WAR and we caught them red handed!"

"Umm, no. That PO is for 240,000 rounds for one training center that trains our Border Patrol agents."

"Oh yeah! Well you can't trust the internet! Those POs were doctored by DHS to hide the true amount! INFOWARS!"

Arguing against that logic is pointless, except for the entertainment value. That's what OSA is for, LOL.
 

OKNewshawk

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BS. Makes you wonder why in war time ammo is FMJ but they need HP ammo?
Two reasons. The previously cited Geneva conventions and the fact that wounding an enemy is actually preferable to killing him. If you kill a person, you've taken one man out of the fight. If you wound him, you take at least three men out of the fight (the wounded man plus at least two to transport him back for medical care.)
 

OKNewshawk

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Alex Jones isn't the only one reporting what DHS has said. I have heard it on Savage, Levin, and Hannity as well. Just because it doesn't get covered on Fox News does not mean that it is a conspiracy theory. Did you not read the link? DHS is attempting to explain their need for the 1.6 billion rounds of ammo they are buying. DHS is not denying the reports.
If you'd check with any of the talk shows you mentioned, I'd bet the source they'd all cite for the talk about DHS as Alex Jones and Infowars. Talk show hosts are not journalists and as such do not have to hew to journalistic standards (multiple sources, for example.)
 

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