Dwight D. Eisenhower on the consequences of war

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WTJ

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While it would take an exhaustive search of historical, and most probably classified, documents to prove it, I submit the last time the US did not have military personnel either in contact or in imminent danger would have been around 1940. I suppose your definition of war could vary unless you are the one under fire.

Also, remember Ike presided, as CIC, over one of the costliest militaries in the world, and even relegated the Army in which he served, and led, to a secondary force (see Pentomic Army) in response to the eastern elite power base in the DoD, CIA, DOS, and Congress. First the Bomber Gap, then the Missile Gap, which is where Ike left office. History has proven the Bear, at the time, was much more toothless than believed or, more accurately, propagandized.

What FDR realized was 'truth' for his class-war, or threat thereof, produces economic growth. This very likely was a topic discussed at several of the Allied conferences, and may well have been a loose understanding.

I think Ike may have explained this to JFK. While I am not a JFK fan (he is revered because he died before he could do any more damage to the aforementioned military-industrial complex), I think he did realize the danger present, and had made efforts to slow the snowball.

Since that point, the military-industrial complex was used to finance societal realignment until it was not sustainable (end of Cold War) and had to be reinvented (War on Some Drugs, War on Terror). It is still with us, and we sustain it so it may sustain social engineering programs. Remember, the US military has been the incubator for social re-engineering for decades.

Great thread, Ridge! I will try not to let you down this time. LOL.
 

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While it would take an exhaustive search of historical, and most probably classified, documents to prove it, I submit the last time the US did not have military personnel either in contact or in imminent danger would have been around 1940. I suppose your definition of war could vary unless you are the one under fire.

About that classified stuff: if we were able to dig into it more exhaustively, just counting our covertly meddling in Latin America's affairs, you'd probably have to go the 19th century. Hell, we started work on the Canal in 1904.

That particular aside, I agree vehemently with the sentiments of your post. Well put!
 
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WTJ

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About that classified stuff: if we were able to dig into it more exhaustively, just counting our covertly meddling in Latin America's affairs, you'd probably have to go the 19th century. Hell, we started work on the Canal in 1904.

That particular aside, I agree vehemently with the sentiments on your post. Well put!

Thanks. I say that with the understanding that, the possible exception being the Banana Republic wars and the China Legation, the US did not seem to have a great deal of force projection between the wars. In fact, by 1940, with isolationism being the prevailing public opinion, we had one of the smallest professional militaries and naval forces in the world. If I recall, the US Army ranked 18th is size.
 

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While it would take an exhaustive search of historical, and most probably classified, documents to prove it, I submit the last time the US did not have military personnel either in contact or in imminent danger would have been around 1940. I suppose your definition of war could vary unless you are the one under fire.

Also, remember Ike presided, as CIC, over one of the costliest militaries in the world, and even relegated the Army in which he served, and led, to a secondary force (see Pentomic Army) in response to the eastern elite power base in the DoD, CIA, DOS, and Congress. First the Bomber Gap, then the Missile Gap, which is where Ike left office. History has proven the Bear, at the time, was much more toothless than believed or, more accurately, propagandized.

What FDR realized was 'truth' for his class-war, or threat thereof, produces economic growth. This very likely was a topic discussed at several of the Allied conferences, and may well have been a loose understanding.

I think Ike may have explained this to JFK. While I am not a JFK fan (he is revered because he died before he could do any more damage to the aforementioned military-industrial complex), I think he did realize the danger present, and had made efforts to slow the snowball.

Since that point, the military-industrial complex was used to finance societal realignment until it was not sustainable (end of Cold War) and had to be reinvented (War on Some Drugs, War on Terror). It is still with us, and we sustain it so it may sustain social engineering programs. Remember, the US military has been the incubator for social re-engineering for decades.

Great thread, Ridge! I will try not to let you down this time. LOL.

Solid posting. No let downs this time. :D

As far as I can tell, Ike knew that no matter how necessary huge military power/spending may have been at any given time - that once you reach those levels it will become, for lack of a better term, a self-perpetuating beast. I.E., he knew that if no tangible threat exists to justify our expenditures - one would likely be created. And how right he was. Obviously Ike was a general and also president during some very tumultuous times, and while many people seemed to be focusing on the present, he was always looking ahead and foreseeing the negative effects other people were blind to.

Your War on Drugs comparison is probably the most similar program in my opinion. I always ask the question "Does the government want to win the WOD? Do the people with financial interest in the WOD want it to end?"
If you could flip a switch today that would stop 100% of drugs from entering/being manufactured, I doubt the government would pull it. Who is going to fill the beastly prison system that the War on Drugs built? What are the employees involved in the WOD, in both the public and private sector going to do if the drug problem gets better? It was never designed to end. Never designed to get smaller. It was only designed to sustain itself by whatever means necessary.

Military-Industrial Complex is a lot like that. There will always be a threat, tangible or not, that justifies it's existence at levels that dare not be questioned. Once you have something that big, with that many people benefiting in so many ways from it, they aren't going to accept the idea of anyone taking any piece of it away. By '61 Ike seemed to be full-on freaking out at the realization that the American public was obviously going to be easily swayed by unwarranted fear, and that politicians and financial interests were going to capitalize on that.

Not only is there are great deal of responsibility that should go along that much power, there's an inherent vulnerability there that politicians and people with a financial interest are going to capitalize on. If you can make people scared, you can make them stop thinking.
 

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Ike. Reagan. Solid presidents for sure, but they're no Vermin Supreme:



Pony-industrial complex for the win.
 
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Lawl. I have a theory called the "Paperwork-Industrial Complex" which is about how there is a vast, loosely-connected group of employees that all have totally unnecessary jobs, and they just create useless paperwork while convincing everyone it's a necessary and vital part of business, because hey, that's their job!

Ever deal with someone at work that sends useless emails all day long, often asking you inane questions? Their boss is walking behind them, and they are saying "Yep, I'm sorting out some details of it with Mr. X and XCorp right now. I'm on it, sir." Overnighting of papers from some office somewhere that you don't need and just throw away, and they won't stop even after you request they stop? Paperwork-Industrial complex, man. Some person is looking busy by printing, organizing and mailing you that packet you no longer open. :D
 

WTJ

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I submit that by '61 the American people were much the same, as a group, as they are now. A decade of prosperity and new shiny balls had dulled them into a state of torpor. I wonder if many of the citizen-soldiers who went through the horrors of WW II could bring themselves to believe that would ever happen again. The professional military had a new threat, and they did, like they always will, what they had to do to protect their charges. The politicians and elitists, however, saw a whole new wealth opportunity through fear, subterfuge, and propaganda. Hell, they had just vanquished the world champion of that league.

The people just never saw it coming.

I am a child of the professional military. I grew up on the top ten target list. My dad, while I was a little better than a year old, sat 12 hour shifts under a special weapon loaded B52 during November of 1962 in Michigan while his wife and kid sat on top of the first target to go, 90 air miles from Havana. I asked later,as an adult, what he was thinking during that time. He said he figured we were all going to die, but at least he would get his shot in. He was a maintainer and probably would have made it a few hours longer. I get the mindset and inherited some of it myself. I just never will understand why we would protect a bunch of people who haven't a clue or even care. You do what you must. Genetic programming? I will say my Dad, while a warrior, became disillusioned with the political aims of the Republic. And he remains so.

The elite made the sheeple just paranoid enough with Bert the Turtle to keep the money flowing, but not enough to make them confine themselves to quarters. That would have been counterproductive. The 15 minute myth was designed to prevent the inevitable gridlock caused by a evacuation. Early on many target areas had several hours of survivability after the first strike, and at most times during the Cold War the US had a good 72 hours of warning from intel sources.

By the time Ike left, he had realized he had been conned. He did his duty and tried to warn the public. Ike was sent away quietly, and Camelot was created. Let the next level of conditioning begin. Time for the next chapter of social engineering. All hail the 60's!
 

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