Electrical Advice, please

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Perplexed

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So I've started using a MIG welder and plasma cutter to work with metal in my shop, and it looks like a hobby I'll get into more and more as I become experienced with the use of these and other metal-working tools. Unfortunately, the wiring in my 20-year-old shop doesn't seem to be up to snuff. Here's how the basic wiring is set up: there's a main breaker box in the garage (to whence the main power line from the street goes) some 75 feet away, which is a 200-amp box with several 240V breakers (washer and dryer) and a number of 120V breakers. There's a second breaker box in the house proper, which is a 150-amp unit with a number of 240V breakers (furnace, fridge, AC, etc.) and some 120V breakers. I'm guessing this second box has no bearing on my issue, which is the third breaker box in the shop - this box has no labels at all, but it has three 120V 20 amp breakers. That's it in this box. As best as I can tell, the third box receives its power from the first breaker box, but I'm not sure, as all the power lines are buried. To make things more complicated, there's a fourth breaker box on a post in the yard, halfway between the garage and the shop. I don't know if this fourth box is in line between the garage and shop breaker boxes, or if it's on a separate line. This box is rated for 200 amps and has several each of 120V and 240V breakers, and this box provides power to the well pumps and well house lights, plus a pole light which has since been removed.

I've been able to run the MIG welder, shop vac, 42" shop fan, air compressor, and other power tools using the shop's electrical supply, with no issues at all. However, the 120/240V plasma cutter that I acquired recently seems to tax the wiring in the shop; if I run the cutter for more than 10-15 seconds on a medium setting (~20-25 amps), the breaker trips and cuts power to the cutter. This is not a good thing, as the cutter needs to have compressed air running through the torch for 10 seconds post-cutting to cool down the tip, so a sudden loss of power mid-cut will shorten the life of the torch consumables by a good deal. By the way, the cutter is set up to automatically detect the incoming current and switch between 120 and 240V as needed. How do I best address the issue of the breaker tripping? Obviously replacing the 20A breaker with a breaker with a higher amperage rating would take care of the issue, but I'm concerned about overloading the wiring. Don't want to cause a fire inside the insulated sheet metal walls of the shop.

Finally, I'd like to run 240V power to the shop for future upgrades of my power tools. Maybe not right now, but if upgrading the amperage rating of the shop's 120V power supply requires the services of an electrician, I'm guessing that having the 240V supply installed at the same time as the 120V upgrade would be cheaper than having two separate service visits made.

Before I get an electrician out to my place, I was wondering if you folks could offer any advice - namely, is there a solution I can do on my own, or is this one of these cases where you "don't try this at home"? Also, what can I expect in the way of costs if I have to have the work done by a professional? A ballpark figure would be handy to ward off the sticker shock of the estimates I'd get. Thanks!
 

TJay74

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How many meters do you have at the site? IS there a meter running the house and a meter running the shop? Sounds like one of the breaker panels is setup using a cut-over meaning it is getting its power directly from the houses breaker panel, this can work provided you are not running to much service.

You may need to contact your electric company and see about having your service upgraded to provide you with more power. The normal residential home is only setup to get 200A service, if you need anything more than that you will need to have them upgrade you to say 400A service. You might need to have a dedicated line ran to the shop with 200A service and maybe even have the breaker panel rewired with the correct amperage breakers so you can run your shop equipment.
 

Perplexed

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The three breakers in the shop box are all 20 amps. At full load on 120V, the cutter pulls 27-28 amps, and on 240V, it can pull 40 amps. There's only one meter on the property, and looking at the various layouts of the panels and the visible conduits, I'm thinking the shop's breaker box gets its power from the garage's breaker box. The main power feed from the street appears to go to the box in the garage, and from there to the house and shop boxes. I'm not sure, though.

Looks like I'll need to contact an electrician, huh?
 

waltham41

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If you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself or if your local codes forbid a non licensed person from doing the work you may want to hire someone to do it for you..... getting the pee shocked out of you is not a fun thing.. I on the job train on about everything that needs to be done around my place and I am talking from experience ;)
 

BReeves

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The three breakers in the shop box are all 20 amps. At full load on 120V, the cutter pulls 27-28 amps, and on 240V, it can pull 40 amps. There's only one meter on the property, and looking at the various layouts of the panels and the visible conduits, I'm thinking the shop's breaker box gets its power from the garage's breaker box. The main power feed from the street appears to go to the box in the garage, and from there to the house and shop boxes. I'm not sure, though.

Looks like I'll need to contact an electrician, huh?

Sorry but have to say it.. You are running a 40 amp cutter on a 20 amp breaker and wondering why it's tripping. Did I miss something?

If you have room in the box for another breaker install a 40 amp 220 breaker and run a dedicated line for the cutter. The web has many wire size calculators you can use to determin what wire size you need. You can probably use the same breaker for your welder as you probably won't be using both at the same time.
 

tyromeo55

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For the record....

You need a license and permit to add a circuit for your welder. but your a big boy and can do what you want. If you add the circuit yourself and burn the place down Id wonder if my insurance would cover the claim

After reading your post I'm going to recommend you hire a professional. As a rule of thumb ( at least with any licensed trade) if you have to ask for advice then your more then likely better off paying someone. If you'd like a recommendation PM me
 

Perplexed

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Thanks for the responses, folks. To answer a few questions: the cutter pulls 40 amps only at 240V and at full load. On 120V and at a medium setting, it's pulling perhaps 20 amps. Because the breaker keeps tripping, I'm guessing the cutter is pulling at least that much. And I live in an unincorporated area of Tulsa County, so no permits needed. At least that I know of! :D And finally, I posted my questions to see if the responses would run along the lines of "Oh, it's an easy fix, here's what you do..." or if they would be more like "Yep, you need an electrician." Looks like the latter wins out. Thanks again, folks!
 

J.P.

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If you're gonna keep doin' it you should just take the plunge and run 3-phase.
Your machines will run much better.....particularly if you start runnin' a decent TIG
 

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