Get bit by a rattlesnake, ouch. Go to the hospital, get bill, OUCH!

[dennishoddy]

If you think the doctors providing your treatment for conditions such as you describe are actively limiting their own options in treatment so they can "milk" the patient for more money, I'd have to seriously question your understanding of, and exposure to, the real on-the-ground medical system in this country. As in day-to-day, in the trenches, pulling people's asses out of the fire of their own apathy and stupidity.

The things listed above are an AT-MINIMUM start to get the treatments you want initiated. As a physician, I made ZERO extra money from that little girl getting charged $10,000/vial for the CroFab I gave her. Zero. But... if I had skimped on it, worried about the cost in a life-or-limb-saving emergency and not even tried something different (like you're suggesting), but even just dialed back a bit on the recommended 4-6 vials for initial treatment and given the minimum of 4, of that girl had a bad outcome, lost a limb, died or even just lost some functionality in the limb - guys like JB would be lined up around the block to file suit against me. Period. Point black. End of story. No question. If you don't believe that, then I wouldn't question your experience in the system, I'd flat out say you have no understanding of the current climate.


I don't give a single treatment for any medical condition (not ONE! not EVER!) based on the fact that it is more complicated and generates more revenue for anyone. Not one. Not EVER in my life or career. NEVER. If that's not clear enough for you, then there's nothing that will convince you anyways, because you've made up your mind and any further attempts to educate you are a waste of my valuable (to me) time.

Well said and exactly correct IMHO.

 

[TedKennedy]

Which come out to total a fraction of the care they provide for free.




Here's the thing about your (not HH, the other guy) electric shock therapy for spider, insect and snake bites - in THEORY it may have some merit... using electricity to denature the proteins of some proteolytic venoms from poisonous creatures and plants sounds good in theory. You use the electricity to shock and change the shape of the proteins, thereby rendering them inactive and stopping their ability to cause damage. Although, like chemotherapy, you have to kill off the bad while not killing the good. How do you do that with your method? How do you judge and know when, where and how long to apply your therapy and how much to use? You measure in volts? In volts per second? There's a lot more to a medical therapy than just "guesstimating" when people's lives are on the line - but from the cheap seats, it's easy to fling poo with the other monkeys. However, as mentioned above, your own accounts of this (similar to a couple of instances I have personally witnessed) are not considered the standard of medical care - the standard by which we are judged in a court of law. You don't like that? Change it. Lobby for it.

Here's what we need, MrT. So get a pencil and write it down, get to work on it, ok?

1. Elimination of the "standard of care" as a basis for medical malpractice lawsuits. Easy-peasy, right? Allow doctors to perform unproven procedures on patients, even on an emergency basis, essentially conducting experiments in uncontrolled conditions, without approval or consent - don't give people a "choice" between the standard expensive therapy that is proven, and the one they feel might be a plausible alternative. I mean, who's gonna choose the "plausible alternative" when it's their life or limb on the line, right? Especially when we tell them they can get the proven, effective, yet expensive therapy anyways, cost no object, and deal with the financial consequences later.

2. Change patient expectations of cure. I mean, let's get real, people come to doctors to get fixed. To be helped. We need to changed to expectations and mentality of the patient population to revert to feel more like they're gambling here - with their lives. We need to get them to understand that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. And they may be one of the eggs, so... if you drop an egg or three on the floor, well, there's always a couple of extra dozen in the fridge.

3. Change administrative policy to allow experimentation and medical "free spirits" in a hospital setting. We're gonna open our arms to those free thinkers who wanna rub tar on your abscesses, use emu oil to treat your muscular dystrophy, and eliminate the calcification of your coronary arteries by driving down your dietary calcium to restrict it's deposition in other tissue, right?


You see where I'm coming from?

If you think the doctors providing your treatment for conditions such as you describe are actively limiting their own options in treatment so they can "milk" the patient for more money, I'd have to seriously question your understanding of, and exposure to, the real on-the-ground medical system in this country. As in day-to-day, in the trenches, pulling people's asses out of the fire of their own apathy and stupidity.

The things listed above are an AT-MINIMUM start to get the treatments you want initiated. As a physician, I made ZERO extra money from that little girl getting charged $10,000/vial for the CroFab I gave her. Zero. But... if I had skimped on it, worried about the cost in a life-or-limb-saving emergency and not even tried something different (like you're suggesting), but even just dialed back a bit on the recommended 4-6 vials for initial treatment and given the minimum of 4, of that girl had a bad outcome, lost a limb, died or even just lost some functionality in the limb - guys like JB would be lined up around the block to file suit against me. Period. Point black. End of story. No question. If you don't believe that, then I wouldn't question your experience in the system, I'd flat out say you have no understanding of the current climate.


I don't give a single treatment for any medical condition (not ONE! not EVER!) based on the fact that it is more complicated and generates more revenue for anyone. Not one. Not EVER in my life or career. NEVER. If that's not clear enough for you, then there's nothing that will convince you anyways, because you've made up your mind and any further attempts to educate you are a waste of my valuable (to me) time.

That sounds like a heckuva a deal. Let's start with "people come to doctors to get fixed".
Say we make doctors, hospitals responsible for curing said patient - not just treatment.

*doc, I'm real sick, my stomach hurts, my toes are swollen, and my eyes bleed.

OK, we'll put you on this medication, and do surgery. Pay up.

*doc, I'm still messed up, no improvement.

OK, let's try a different med, and do another surgery. Pay up.


Can you imagine going to a transmission shop and being billed for each attempt the mechanic made to fix your car, and being billed even though the car didn't get fixed?

 

[vvvvvvv]

Can you imagine going to a transmission shop and being billed for each attempt the mechanic made to fix your car, and being billed even though the car didn't get fixed?

That's pretty normal...

 

[TedKennedy]

That's pretty normal...

...and there's legal recourse.

 

[MDT]

That sounds like a heckuva a deal. Let's start with "people come to doctors to get fixed".
Say we make doctors, hospitals responsible for curing said patient - not just treatment.

*doc, I'm real sick, my stomach hurts, my toes are swollen, and my eyes bleed.

OK, we'll put you on this medication, and do surgery. Pay up.

*doc, I'm still messed up, no improvement.

OK, let's try a different med, and do another surgery. Pay up.


Can you imagine going to a transmission shop and being billed for each attempt the mechanic made to fix your car, and being billed even though the car didn't get fixed?

wow...that is an incredibly simplistic way to describe two things that aren't even related. nice try.

 

[JD8]

That sounds like a heckuva a deal. Let's start with "people come to doctors to get fixed".
Say we make doctors, hospitals responsible for curing said patient - not just treatment.

*doc, I'm real sick, my stomach hurts, my toes are swollen, and my eyes bleed.

OK, we'll put you on this medication, and do surgery. Pay up.

*doc, I'm still messed up, no improvement.

OK, let's try a different med, and do another surgery. Pay up.


Can you imagine going to a transmission shop and being billed for each attempt the mechanic made to fix your car, and being billed even though the car didn't get fixed?

Yeah, because the human body and transmissions are analogous.

 

[TedKennedy]

Yeah, because the human body and transmissions are analogous.

No, because medical folks get a free pass on "swapping parts" until they find the problem. When a doc or nurse makes a mistake, complictions arise - who foots the bill? How many times do you reckon it happens and the patient doesn't even know it?

 

[MDT]

Please refer to GMThunder's comment and try to understand the extreme differences in complexity and compliance in the human body and a hunk of steel before commenting further.

 

[Dave70968]

I say we see if Mr. T is willing to put his money where his mouth is. I have spark plugs, who has a rattlesnake?

 

[HiredHand]

No, because medical folks get a free pass on "swapping parts" until they find the problem. When a doc or nurse makes a mistake, complictions arise - who foots the bill? How many times do you reckon it happens and the patient doesn't even know it?

Probably more than anyone really knows or wants to let on.

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals

"In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year."