Here's what your single payer healthcare funding would look like.

dlbleak

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Found this. Thought it was pretty informative
 

Tanis143

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I bet non profit doesn't quite mean what you think it does. What do you do with these funds you can't give to shareholders? They sure don't tend to "give" it back to patients.

Still, like the thoughts and direction. Can't be worse than what we have...

That would be easy, any profits made over operating costs would go to a slush fund for those who cannot pay for the health care. Any hospital consistently running well and above operating costs should be investigated and prices changed to bring back within range. Other things like no more paying $15 for a single dose of aspirin, $8 bucks for a toothbrush, etc.
 

Buddhaman

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Self inflicted.

"You must inject this into your body or be fired!!"
Totally not because they're burned out working long hours due to the amount of sick people. And a lot of the "staff" that lose their jobs aren't nurses, surgeons, or doctors - it's support like cleaning and housekeeping. I'd be tired to if morons kept ignoring advice given to not get sick then ending up in the hospital and overwhelming the available beds and requiring constant care.
 

SlugSlinger

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That would be easy, any profits made over operating costs would go to a slush fund for those who cannot pay for the health care. Any hospital consistently running well and above operating costs should be investigated and prices changed to bring back within range. Other things like no more paying $15 for a single dose of aspirin, $8 bucks for a toothbrush, etc.
Then operating costs would go up, problem solved for the hospital. Inflating operating costs would be a piece of cake.
 

Tanis143

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Then operating costs would go up, problem solved for the hospital. Inflating operating costs would be a piece of cake.

Actually, as a non-profit they would be heavily monitored to prevent this exact type of behavior. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it insures that when caught they face severe legal issues. The biggest problem we have with health care (and the prison system) is that we, as a society, have allowed the medical industry to be a placed under a capitalistic model without any checks and balances. Mega hospitals and medical groups then put forth money to influence policy that makes them more money. Wash, rinse and repeat.

I'm 100% for capitalism WHEN the entire model is present. This includes competition which creates a balance between profit and cost to the people. However, when the services provided often have no competition and you have no choice in which hospital you go to during an emergency, they get to charge whatever they want without repercussion. Since there are no natural checks and balances, there needs to be regulation. As much as I am for small government, this is one area that they are supposed to be in: to protect the citizens from greedy monopolies like the medical industry. They have regulations on electrical companies, gas companies, water, etc because there is no competition. The same sort of regulations need to be in place for the medical industry. And the best way to force them into a non-profit model.
 

SlugSlinger

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So you want this lady running your healthcare and determining what an appropriate amount of costs are to run a hospital efficiently. Got it.
I’m not sure this person makes the best decisions.


A2437A59-922E-4AFE-8A9F-1D5E474532CD.png



Actually, as a non-profit they would be heavily monitored to prevent this exact type of behavior. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it insures that when caught they face severe legal issues. The biggest problem we have with health care (and the prison system) is that we, as a society, have allowed the medical industry to be a placed under a capitalistic model without any checks and balances. Mega hospitals and medical groups then put forth money to influence policy that makes them more money. Wash, rinse and repeat.

I'm 100% for capitalism WHEN the entire model is present. This includes competition which creates a balance between profit and cost to the people. However, when the services provided often have no competition and you have no choice in which hospital you go to during an emergency, they get to charge whatever they want without repercussion. Since there are no natural checks and balances, there needs to be regulation. As much as I am for small government, this is one area that they are supposed to be in: to protect the citizens from greedy monopolies like the medical industry. They have regulations on electrical companies, gas companies, water, etc because there is no competition. The same sort of regulations need to be in place for the medical industry. And the best way to force them into a non-profit model.
 

Tanis143

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So you want this lady running your healthcare and determining what an appropriate amount of costs are to run a hospital efficiently. Got it.
I’m not sure this person makes the best decisions.


View attachment 247381
So instead of offering a valid counter point as to why a non-profit model would be better than what we currently have, you bring up one person and basically say "See, this person right here is why your idea fails".

First off, one person would not decide how to efficiently run a hospital, that would still be done by the hospital itself. The non-profit rules would just prevent the hospital from raising the rates to hide any profit they are making. It would have set rules that would limit the rates based on costs of items and labor instead of charging you prices that are equal or more than a 1 night stay at the Waldorf penthouse in NYC.

The idea is to take profit out of the picture completely and make health care about treating people instead of fleecing them in their time of need.
 

SlugSlinger

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You want the government to run healthcare. That image is the government whether you like it or not.

And manipulating operating costs is something that can be done under the highest scrutiny. The issue is with auditing cost is who determines the amount of appropriate costs? Usually it's management that is not in touch with the weeds around the costs, as in the details driving the costs. The staff does not control cost, management controls costs.

It sounds like you think, and I may be wrong, but someone is going to set a threshold of costs not to exceed based on some factors that management decides is "fare". When that happens, costs are going to be controlled, as you want and believe is appropriate. When costs are controlled its directly related to labor or supplies. Supplies are controlled by management, labor by individuals who can leave for more lucrative compensation. So good luck thinking that cost controls are going to improve or even maintain the healthcare quality.

Why do you think an aspirin is $8? It's called allocating overhead to the direct costs. The actual single aspirin's direct costs is $.25, however, when you include the complete supply chain internally and externally to get that aspirin to the patient, it's price explodes exponentially.

And another note, profit is used to expand business, good or bad. It does drive cost up, but it also creates innovation. Take out profit and innovation hits a brick wall.
 

Tanis143

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You want the government to run healthcare. That image is the government whether you like it or not.

And manipulating operating costs is something that can be done under the highest scrutiny. The issue is with auditing cost is who determines the amount of appropriate costs? Usually it's management that is not in touch with the weeds around the costs, as in the details driving the costs. The staff does not control cost, management controls costs.

It sounds like you think, and I may be wrong, but someone is going to set a threshold of costs not to exceed based on some factors that management decides is "fare". When that happens, costs are going to be controlled, as you want and believe is appropriate. When costs are controlled its directly related to labor or supplies. Supplies are controlled by management, labor by individuals who can leave for more lucrative compensation. So good luck thinking that cost controls are going to improve or even maintain the healthcare quality.

Why do you think an aspirin is $8? It's called allocating overhead to the direct costs. The actual single aspirin's direct costs is $.25, however, when you include the complete supply chain internally and externally to get that aspirin to the patient, it's price explodes exponentially.

And another note, profit is used to expand business, good or bad. It does drive cost up, but it also creates innovation. Take out profit and innovation hits a brick wall.

The aspirin explanation is wrong. What you are saying is akin to taking a cab and having them charge you a sitting fee as well as keep the meter running while you run into a business to pick up something, effectively double charging you. When you look at an itemized bill for a stay in the hospital the costs of having your meds delivered are covered in a separate area. That $8 aspirin cost is you paying for a whole bottle but only using one.

So you justify profits in an industry where we have no control in a time of need where we go? You are perfectly ok with going to a hospital by ambulance and them being able to charge you whatever they want?

Maybe my non-profit idea is not the one, but how about regulated like a utility? Or are you against that as well?

As I said before, this current model is stifling the health of people. I've known several people who refuse to go to the hospital because of the price. I've seen what hospital debt can do to people. All I know is that the average cost of ONE night in the hospital is over $11,000. ONE night! Do I want the government to run all of medical care? Hell no. But there needs to be regulation otherwise people will continue to get fleeced. Even if they don't go to the hospital their insurance prices will continue to go up while coverage goes down.
 

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