How do you train?

[JEVapa]

I notice there's some speckle ops people here. Wow. Maybe like this guy:

 

[Jgibs0321]

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Jgibs0321]

AMEN!

I agree, training is a necessity for self defense. Training has been a pet peeve of mine for years. What I find irritating are the instructors that are teaching marksmanship and that's okay, (it's a basic skill we all need) but to pass it off as self defense as some advertise isn't okay. Unless a person studies fighting, as it pertains to self defense, they will buy into the age old trope that marksmanship skill equals fighting skill, the best shot will win the fight. That a person can shoot good groups on a square range on an inanimate target has little in common with a bad guy putting pistol your face in a dimly lighted parking lot. Any number of street robbery videos show that having the skill to shoot the wings off a fly at 100 yards in wind storm will do little to stop the bad guys. Self defense training has to at least in part replicate self defense. Unfortunately we have for the most part sanitized what is an ugly thing to the point that the training has little to do with the goal.

Anyway, just my rant for the day.

Force on force training is a good reality to check as well as getting the piss beat out of you. I think its a little out of reach for most people as they either dont think they need it, cant or arent willing to pay for it, or are to the point they are entirely dependent on a firearm to defend themselves.

 

[Gunbuffer]

Always a problem with paper shooting on a square range at an inanimate target and calling it self defense training/fight training, everything works and you always win. A person can grow tall when losing is never even a consideration. Until you train with a resisting opponent it's pretty much a fantasy.

Much better and more realistic self defense training.

BINGO!

I mean literally, all I had left was “square range”
Right across the top of my card.
should we start the new Operator Bingo in this thread or start another.l?

 

[Jgibs0321]

BINGO!

I mean literally, all I had left was “square range”
Right across the top of my card.
should we start the new Operator Bingo in this thread or start another.l?

I love it

 

[dennishoddy]

or are to the point they are entirely dependent on a firearm to defend themselves.

That is exactly where 90% of armed citizens are at. They aren't physically capable of defending themselves in force on force situations because of whatever situation be it age, disability, or whatever.
The concept of everyone needs to get the crap beat out of them in a training situation is not real world thinking.
It's a great idea to think one is capable of sustaining this type of training, but in reality only a few are physically capable of doing it.
A few years back, I'd do it in a heart beat, but at 70, you don't train like that anymore. You focus on weapon location for accessibility and keeping your head on a swivel to access if a threat is developing and determining what one can do to evade any confrontation if possible. As the last resort, your accuracy with the firearm to prevent secondary damage on innocent bystanders should be a priority which seems to be confrontational from some of the earlier posts.

 

[Jgibs0321]

That is exactly where 90% of armed citizens are at. They aren't physically capable of defending themselves in force on force situations because of whatever situation be it age, disability, or whatever.
The concept of everyone needs to get the crap beat out of them in a training situation is not real world thinking.
It's a great idea to think one is capable of sustaining this type of training, but in reality only a few are physically capable of doing it.
A few years back, I'd do it in a heart beat, but at 70, you don't train like that anymore. You focus on weapon location for accessibility and keeping your head on a swivel to access if a threat is developing and determining what one can do to evade any confrontation if possible. As the last resort, your accuracy with the firearm to prevent secondary damage on innocent bystanders should be a priority which seems to be confrontational from some of the earlier posts.

Yep all fair and very true statements. First level of defense is the eyes and ears. And to avoiding problems, yeah I agree. And to real world thinking, if you (generally speaking not directly to you dennis) have never been in a fight, the worst place to learn what you dont know, is in a fight. And context to getting your ass beat, I dont mean go get gang initiated and spend a week in a hospital. Im referring to go train for hand to hand and ground fighting. Where you should, get whooped on a little just to show you what it is like to face someone trying to hit you, take you down, choke you out, etc etc. Fear management, foot work, and another good reality check to your skills and fitness levels to find out you cant john wick everyone like he does. Thats what I meant…. And thats for people who have never done any of that.

 

[dennishoddy]

Yep all fair and very true statements. First level of defense is the eyes and ears. And to avoiding problems, yeah I agree. And to real world thinking, if you (generally speaking not directly to you dennis) have never been in a fight, the worst place to learn what you dont know, is in a fight. And context to getting your ass beat, I dont mean go get gang initiated and spend a week in a hospital. Im referring to go train for hand to hand and ground fighting. Where you should, get whooped on a little just to show you what it is like to face someone trying to hit you, take you down, choke you out, etc etc. Fear management, foot work, and another good reality check to your skills and fitness levels to find out you cant john wick everyone like he does. Thats what I meant…. And thats for people who have never done any of that.

Oh, I've done lots of fighting. Was on the wrestling team in HS and had no issue defending myself in bar fights over the years with military training as well.
I've got that part down and could probably handle myself quite well even at 70 against some of the portly 30 somethings. Very physically active.
I get where your coming from, but with age comes the knowledge that you can't sustain yourself in a lengthly fight anymore so you resort to dirty tricks or accurate gunfire. Everyone has to assess their ability to fight back and adjust accordingly. I have zero opposition to popping ones eyeballs out with a finger sweep or kicking one in the nards. You do what you have to, hoping that will never happen.
Mental prep is the most important to make sure you're prepared to go to that level which I think is the most important part of defending oneself.
Can you pop out an eyeball? That is the question one needs to ask themself. How far will you go to destroy someone to defend yourself?
Most won't because they aren't mentally prepared, never been in a fight and don't know how to respond.

 

[ricco]

Not every FoF class involves grappling, the first FoF class I attended was air soft and all we did was shoot at each other in the FoF portion. It was a combination class of paper shooting live fire and FoF. At that time we had just gotten CCW in Kansas so this type of training was all new to me. I was smart enough to know that I didn't know and ordered a FoF dvd from the instructor that was putting on the class and a friend and I worked some of the material beforehand. This was an intermediate/advanced level class so everyone was proficient with the live fire part of the class, that changed in the FoF class. It seems that standing across from another person who is going to shoot at you with a little plastic BB was more than some people could deal with, fouled draws, missed safeties, people trying to go backward and falling down. When people discovered that using two hands on the pistol wasn't always possible that's when the real fun started. Trying fend off a lightly resisting attacker, basically just dummying, while attempting to draw from concealment was more than some could do, lot's of dropped air soft guns. After that class my practice methodology changed. My opinion, everyone that CCW's should go to a FoF class, if you're a senior or have a disability just do what you can do, no instructor can to force you to do anything your not comfortable with or don't feel safe doing. Just go, after you get hit a few times it's not so bad and there is nothing like the sting of a sim round or even an air soft BB to help you correct a deficiency you might not otherwise have known about.

 

[Snattlerake]

That is exactly where 90% of armed citizens are at. They aren't physically capable of defending themselves in force on force situations because of whatever situation be it age, disability, or whatever.
The concept of everyone needs to get the crap beat out of them in a training situation is not real world thinking.
It's a great idea to think one is capable of sustaining this type of training, but in reality only a few are physically capable of doing it.
A few years back, I'd do it in a heart beat, but at 70, you don't train like that anymore. You focus on weapon location for accessibility and keeping your head on a swivel to access if a threat is developing and determining what one can do to evade any confrontation if possible. As the last resort, your accuracy with the firearm to prevent secondary damage on innocent bystanders should be a priority which seems to be confrontational from some of the earlier posts.

Sounds familiar. I think about taking out bad guys like I used to but now I'm out of breath and fall over just putting on my underwear.