How do you train?

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Chris Harrison

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OK, some interesting feedback. I guess I've concluded that there are many different things you may have to do in a defensive situation where you have to use your firearm. For the purpose of this thread, Let's stick with scenarios where you are carrying a handgun concealed. To that ends, you may have to reload, you may have to use cover. You may have to shoot from awkward positions, you have to clear a malfunction or shoot one-handed. But the thing you will certainly have to do is get your gun out of the holster and onto the target. If fail to accomplish that, you weren't really in a gunfight, you just got shot. Again, this is just my opinion and it's based on training and observing dozens of surveillance videos, and articles about the subject. To be clear, I'm not talking about a fast draw where you outdraw the bad guy. I'm talking about situations you can find on many different surveillance videos or body cam videos from law enforcement. For instance, it's late you ran into the local convenience store to get something to drink. A thug with a shotgun walks in. He's nervous and demanding all the money. He's looking around, checking that there is only one clerk, that no one is coming out of the back storeroom or the restroom. He's checking the front door, etc. He's also working himself up and you believe he intends to kill both you and the clerk as soon the clerk gets the register open. As he again scans the area, you have a couple of seconds before he looks back at you. Is that enough time to draw from concealment, get on target and make the shot? If you trained enough, probably. Another situation was in the church shooting in White Settlement, TX. The first guy who went for his gun couldn't get it out in time to act. He appeared to be trying to draw from a SoB holster while sitting and couldn't do it. He stood up, and when he did, he got the bad guy's attention while still trying to draw and was killed. These types of situations can demand a smooth, quick, flawless draw. I'm not talking about trying to get a sub-one-second shot onto the target. I'm talking about an efficient, draw with no wasted motion and good shot placement. It takes practice and lots of it. The ability to do smooth reloads, shoot offhand, etc are still important, as well as several other skills. But my focus is typically on a smooth presentation and a double-tap. Often I'll practice like I'm shooting an assailant to the ground, which is more realistic. I'll also practice against multiple targets and get in some target transition practice. Most of my range sessions, I'll shoot 200 or rounds doing nothing but this.

Let my state one more time that is what I think is right for me. I'm perfectly fine if you feel, for you that other areas of practice are more important. I'm just curious as to what that might be and why. I try and stay open-minded about such things. The more you learn, the more you come to realize how much there is you don't know. This is a journey that doesn't end if I think the closed-minded tend to walk in circles.
 

Snattlerake

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As a complete new guy to this whole training thing, after you are trained, do you practice what you were trained to do? Or do you train for more training, or is that something else?
It seems to me that if you spend all your time training, you will never have time to practice what you were trained to do and in so doing you will never get good at your training.
Your regular job is testing fuses, right? Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked. Nope, that fuse worked.
 

KurtM

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Tut Tut my good Snattler! I practice changing fuses! I don't train to change fuses. Besides with my mining background I know that if you are changing fuses the indication they were bad is no loud noise!😁

To clear all this up. Perfect practice makes perfect, training does not make perfect. All training does is teach you what to practice.......so the title for this thread in my opinion should be "how do you practice" ?
After all we all train the same way. We find someone we think knows what we do not and pay them to train us in what they do.
 

Gadsden

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I am not one that will run to the rescue or stop the bad guy from doing bad things to things or people that I am not willing to risk having my life destroyed to save. To my way of thinking everyone is on their own. Unless it is a direct attack my mouth stays closed, my fists remain unclenched, the pepper spray remains in the pocket and pistol remains in the holster. I put no faith in "situational awarness", Cooper's "color code" or bogus "stand your ground" laws. I will always be behind the curve should an attack ever occur. My training/practice is a direct reflection of that thinking.
So, if you saw a woman getting sexually assaulted you'd walk the other way and do nothing to help her? Do you have any idea how incredibly callous and self-centered that attitude is? That basically makes you no better than, no actually the same as, the person who stands there with his or her phone recording an assault while doing nothing to help the victim including calling 911. Your statement begs the question, what if the victim was someone you love and someone, who could have helped, just walked the other way because he didn't want to risk getting involved? Would that be okay with you? Would you understand and excuse the person for putting on their blinders and leaving them to deal with it themselves because that's what you would have done if it was a stranger?
 
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Snattlerake

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For instance, it's late you ran into the local convenience store to get something to drink. A thug with a shotgun walks in. He's nervous and demanding all the money. He's looking around, checking that there is only one clerk, that no one is coming out of the back storeroom or the restroom. He's checking the front door, etc. He's also working himself up and you believe he intends to kill both you and the clerk as soon the clerk gets the register open. As he again scans the area, you have a couple of seconds before he looks back at you. Is that enough time to draw from concealment, get on target and make the shot? If you trained enough, probably.
The scenario you described in bold print scares me as far as perceived vs reality. If you do get the shot off before he even points the gun at you, you had better be able to articulate that fear of imminent death really well in court. You are in a very grey area as you would be the attacker because he has not used deadly force yet.
 
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Meadhall Range

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Sounds like a lot of folks would benefit from the Mas Ayoob class coming up on Mar12 :) As to the rest, Perfect practice is only valid if you are practicing the right things with the right technique...and training is for finding those techniques. The reason for training with multiple people even in the same "space" is that a particular instructor may present a specific thing in Just the "right" way for you to internalize it and Understand it for you while another may give you another piece of that. However getting to the point where you can tell the difference often involves getting to higher skills levels and exposure levels to training. Monkey see, monkey do doesn't mean you Understand it. And understanding and context are what enable you to get to those next levels. Training 20 years ago in an institutional setting doesn't mean you have everything you will ever need. Technology and understanding and changes in understanding are ongoing. That med class you took 20 years ago doesn't mean there isn't better ways now etc.
 

TedKennedy

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So, if you saw a woman getting sexually assaulted you'd walk the other way and do nothing to help her? Do you have any idea how incredibly callous and self-centered that attitude is? That basically makes you no better than, no actually the same as, the person who stands there with his or her phone recording an assault while doing nothing to help the victim including calling 911. Your statement begs the question, what if the victim was someone you love and someone, who could have helped, just walked the other way because he didn't want to risk getting involved? Would that be okay with you? Would you understand and excuse the person for putting on their blinders and leaving them to deal with it themselves because that's what you would have done if it was a stranger?

What if the victim is someone you dislike immensely?
 

ricco

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So, if you saw a woman getting sexually assaulted you'd walk the other way and do nothing to help her? Do you have any idea how incredibly callous and self-centered that attitude is? That basically makes you no better than, no actually the same as, the person who stands there with his or her phone recording an assault while doing nothing to help the victim including calling 911. Your statement begs the question, what if the victim was someone you love and someone, who could have helped, just walked the other way because he didn't want to risk getting involved? Would that be okay with you? Would you understand and excuse the person for putting on their blinders and leaving them to deal with it themselves because that's what you would have done if it was a stranger?
Not callous or self centered, just practical for the world we live in today, it's not 1822 it's 2022. In case you haven't noticed the world has changed. People who try to save the world from itself are naive or just aren't paying attention. Let's take a look at what has happened to a few people who tried to save the world and it went sideways, as happens more often than not in the real world.

George Zimmerman, charged with murder, lost his family, lost his job, can't find work (last I heard) and was almost 2 million dollars in debt.

Greg and Travis McMichael, charged with murder, found guilty, life without the possibility of parole. Roddie Bryan, charged with murder, life with the possility of parole.

Kyle Rittenhouse, charged with murder, 18 years old and is now a social pariah, his classmates don't even want him on campus. If this wasn't such a hot button trial he probably wouldn't have received the money necessary to hire the outstanding legal team that was able to keep him out of prison.

If you think this just me and my callous way of thinking, try again. Not long ago Greg Ellifritz, a retired police officer, warned about the dangers of getting involved in othere people's fights.

The phrase "not my monkeys, not my circus" hasn't become so popular in self defense circles because the world looks kindly on sheepdogs. Ask Kim Potter what happens when you make a mistake.

So basically here's the deal, eveyone that has two brain cells that even occasionally bump into each other knows there are bad people in the world wanting to do bad things. So it is a conscious choice, each of us can accept the possibility of being attacked and prepare for that possibility or we can occupy our time with other things and hope for the naive white knight to ride to the rescue. If you want to be that white knight that is your choice, hopefully you won't regret that choice from a prison cell as so many others are doing at this very moment.

It all comes down to this, it is each persons conscious deliberate choice whether or not they become a bad guys chew toy.
 

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