If You Ever Fantasized About Accountability In Government...

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henschman

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Why would the ATF feel any need to hold itself accountable to the public? None of its members are elected by the public, and it has the power to unilaterally make federal law in the form of "regulations." In fact, most federal law is made in this way by various agencies, none of which are accountable to the public. So if you define a Republic as a form of government in which people vote on those who make the laws, then no, we do not have much of a Republic left. We do have enough of one left that the Congress could strip this power away from agencies if they wanted to, but the prevailing philosophies of government in this country require administrative agencies -- they think that the government should regulate way more parts of our lives than 534 representatives could possibly handle under a democratic process like the Constitution requires. Since Congress reflects the prevailing statist ideologies in this country, neither of which is opposed to delegation of legislative power to a non-democratic, "extra-constitutional" 4th branch of government, they will certainly not do anything about it.

It seems as if the "Administrative State" is well enough entrenched in our society (and in the societies of all western nations) that it will probably be around for a good long time. I just wish we would be more honest about what form of government we have. In Jr. High civics classes, as far as I know, they are still teaching kids that we live in a Constitutional Republic, and that we vote on the people who make our laws. That seems to be what most people in this country think, and they probably think that is the form of government we are exporting to the rest of the world when we overthrow foreign governments. If people want an Administrative State rather than a Constitutional Republic, that is one thing... but we at least need to be honest about what form of government we have.

About the only peaceable way to fight this action by the ATF is to ask your representatives to pass a law limiting the ATF's power... for whatever good that will do.
 

Griffin

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Why would the ATF feel any need to hold itself accountable to the public? None of its members are elected by the public, and it has the power to unilaterally make federal law in the form of "regulations." In fact, most federal law is made in this way by various agencies, none of which are accountable to the public. So if you define a Republic as a form of government in which people vote on those who make the laws, then no, we do not have much of a Republic left. We do have enough of one left that the Congress could strip this power away from agencies if they wanted to, but the prevailing philosophies of government in this country require administrative agencies -- they think that the government should regulate way more parts of our lives than 534 representatives could possibly handle under a democratic process like the Constitution requires. Since Congress reflects the prevailing statist ideologies in this country, neither of which is opposed to delegation of legislative power to a non-democratic, "extra-constitutional" 4th branch of government, they will certainly not do anything about it.

It seems as if the "Administrative State" is well enough entrenched in our society (and in the societies of all western nations) that it will probably be around for a good long time. I just wish we would be more honest about what form of government we have. In Jr. High civics classes, as far as I know, they are still teaching kids that we live in a Constitutional Republic, and that we vote on the people who make our laws. That seems to be what most people in this country think, and they probably think that is the form of government we are exporting to the rest of the world when we overthrow foreign governments. If people want an Administrative State rather than a Constitutional Republic, that is one thing... but we at least need to be honest about what form of government we have.

About the only peaceable way to fight this action by the ATF is to ask your representatives to pass a law limiting the ATF's power... for whatever good that will do.

That was well said, but I would disagree that children are taught that the United States is a Republic. Based on my observations and interactions with the general public, the majority of people both young and middle-aged are for some reason, under the impression that the Unites States is a Democracy. Furthermore, they are quite happy with our current form of government, and feel that it is necessary. The only issue they may dispute is who should be in directing the government's immense power, but they do not think that the power itself is the problem only the party or person in control.

My conclusion is not that people have been hoodwinked into this form of legislature, but that their desire of how a government should operate has finally been realized. Many people today want an Ochlocracy, they want their social programs, benefits, rules and regulations, but most of all they want the feeling of safety and security and are more than happy to sacrifice whatever is necessary to achieve it.

We have all read and heard it many times before, but Benjamen Franklin's words are just as true today as they were when he wrote them.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


The nation we live in is the nation we have built by design, each successive generation raising the wall of tyranny a little higher.

Chris Griffin
 

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At what point do we tell their IA to go pound sand, and get a "neutral" third party in there to review things.

I say neutral, as it's still the Federal government, but FBI or some other agency (NSA, Secret Service, ICE, anyone...?) may at least make a concerted effort to see wtf actually happened.
 

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