In France hundreds of sheep are killed after bear chases them over cliff

[MacFromOK]

Shouldn't the real question be "how do we teach them to hunt feral pigs?"

ROFL!

 

[rc508pir]

and i'm thru reading this garbage, i no longer communicate with lower order primates

Jesus dude, no one said they needed to be hunted to extinction. Any predator species needs culling when the population gets out of control. Wolves aren't as bad as pigs at breading but they aren't far off the mark, and that's whats happening.

 

[Rooster1971]

That's exactly the problem with reintroducing anything to the wild, especially alpha predators that has became extinct in that area for the most part. There are exceptions like bison. Wolf introduction has not had much if any effect on the bison population. Main reason is that the bison will defend their young and a 1500lb cow bison is nothing to mess with. They use defense methods of herding the young into the center of a herd if attacked by a pack of wolves.
Elk on the other hand, don't have that defense mechanism. Its every animal for themselves.
BTW, when the Indians ruled the land around Yellowstone, elk were plains game. Encroaching civilization drove them to the mountains where they adapted. There were few to no elk in the Yellowstone area back when wolves ran wild and free.
Elk were native to Okla and Texas.

Yep, we were the invasive species. Tell us more about conservation. I'm a big time hunter..
Where are the free range buffalo. Was it wolves that did the elk and bison in?

 

[dennishoddy]

Yep, we were the invasive species. Tell us more about conservation. I'm a big time hunter..
Where are the free range buffalo. Was it wolves that did the elk and bison in?

How come you never post in the hunting/fishing forum if your a big time hunter?

 

[Dave70968]

Jesus dude, no one said they needed to be hunted to extinction. Any predator species needs culling when the population gets out of control. Wolves aren't as bad as pigs at breading but they aren't far off the mark, and that's whats happening.

See dennishoddy's post above about the effects of reintroduction, particularly the bit about the restoration of habitat. With abundant food, species' populations grow, to the detriment of the food source. That's what happened with the elk and the local flora, and it's what's happening with the wolves upon those same elk. When the elk are reduced, the wolf population will also decline. Then, with reduced predation pressure, the elk population will rise again, leading to an increase in wolves, and the cycle repeats. We even have a mathematical model for it: its called the Lotka–Volterra equations, sometimes called the predator-prey equations.

I'm still not seeing where restoring a balance to an ecosystem that we deliberately unbalanced is a bad thing.

 

[dennishoddy]

They were gone because we eliminated them.

In light of the above--the restoration of habitat due to reduction in over-grazing, the lack of effect on native animal populations--isn't that a good thing?

Shouldn't the real question be "how do we teach them to hunt feral pigs?"

The last time I was in NM and in Colorado was last year. They have the highest population of elk in the country, and they also have an immense amount of alder. Alder trees are not on a government watch list for extermination nor overgrazing.
I would post some beautiful fall alder photo's but photobucket has screwed me.
Yes, the wolves were eliminated because of decimation of domestic specie and wildlife that fed the pioneers that settled that country.
I guess we should now close down Yellowstone, and return it to the animals to do as they may? you and I both know that is not going to happen. The tourists would rather see a herd of majestic elk vs one scroungy overgrown German Shepard dog I'm betting.
I'm not overwhelmed with a wolf sighting. In Alaska, there are no restrictions on trapping in some hunt areas.

 

[dennishoddy]

Yep, we were the invasive species. Tell us more about conservation. I'm a big time hunter..
Where are the free range buffalo. Was it wolves that did the elk and bison in?

Lets see some pics of the big time hunter and your harvest.
I can tell your not familiar with conservation. The proper term is bison, not buffalo. There are several free ranging herds in the US and Canada now. New Mexico, Alberta, Arizona, and other places. They are so populated, they are offered for sale and one is allowed to hunt them as well in the free range areas when their population overcomes the ability of the habitat to support them.

 

[Rooster1971]

How come you never post in the hunting/fishing forum if your a big time hunter?

Because I don't need validation or a pat on the back. I harvest deer and have respect for the animal. I've shot some decent racks but usually give younger bucks a pass and thump the tasty does. I'm a meat hunter.

 

[dennishoddy]

Because I don't need validation or a pat on the back. I harvest deer and have respect for the animal. I've shot some decent racks but usually give younger bucks a pass and thump the tasty does. I'm a meat hunter.

Nobody was asking for a validation. Your leaning toward an anti-hunting stance and using the I'm a big time hunter to try and validate your argument.
I have two ways to argue conservation. One with a real hunter, and another with a play/imaginary hunter with an agenda.
Pick your way.

 

[Dave70968]

The last time I was in NM and in Colorado was last year. They have the highest population of elk in the country, and they also have an immense amount of alder. Alder trees are not on a government watch list for extermination nor overgrazing.
I would post some beautiful fall alder photo's but photobucket has screwed me.
Yes, the wolves were eliminated because of decimation of domestic specie and wildlife that fed the pioneers that settled that country.
I guess we should now close down Yellowstone, and return it to the animals to do as they may? you and I both know that is not going to happen. The tourists would rather see a herd of majestic elk vs one scroungy overgrown German Shepard dog I'm betting.
I'm not overwhelmed with a wolf sighting. In Alaska, there are no restrictions on trapping in some hunt areas.

You're painting this like it's an all-or-nothing situation. It's not; there's room for the wolf there as well.

There's an interesting video about that study:

(The narrator incorrectly refers to the elk as deer, though they are both cervids. He's British; he's probably not familiar with the American Elk.)

I suggest watching it fullscreen, at high resolution (yes, Dennis, I know your internet connection precludes video; I'm sorry, but I can't help you there). The video discusses not just the effect on the elk, and on vegetation, but on coyotes (reduced due to predation from wolves), foxes, rabbits, mice, bears, bald eagles, beavers...even physical changes to the land. Erosion declined as trees became better-rooted, and rivers became more stable.

This is a very complicated system, but I'm not prepared to say that restoring it to its natural, balanced state is anything but a good thing. And I suspect the tourism won't suffer one bit for the change.