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In God We Trust

Discussion in 'News Links' started by Timmy59, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. TerryMiller

    TerryMiller Sharpshooter

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    I have to disagree with the above. Look at any nation that professed that there was no God (i.e., Russia, China) and see the number of their own citizens that were killed by the leaders of those countries. Without religion, mankind tends to do as wishes because of selfishness. Even those of us that consider ourselves to be "good Christians" still act out of selfishness. In my case especially, it is camera gear. With others, it's firearms.
     
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  2. Tanis143

    Tanis143 Sharpshooter

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    That is pretty flawed argument. Look at Europe's past. Many monarchies and including one pope (Pope John XII) were rife with corruption and genocide yet they were all catholics. So that theory doesn't hold up. The problem is that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, this is true in all aspects including politics and religion. So again, religion does not make people good, nor does lack of religion make people bad.

    But back to the original topic: I think the best way I can put it is I respect anyone's right to follow whichever religion they want as long as A) Its teachings are not forced onto others outside that religion, B) No harm is done to anyone because of that religion and C)That religion is not implied as superior by any government body. In all honesty it's not something I would protest over, or even write to my local/state/federal government about as I see the Christian religion as just another mythology in earth's long history of mythologies. I don't mean that to sound offensive, just my personal view. I'm just here stating my own opinion and hopefully get a few people to stop and think about what its like to be in another person's shoes.
     
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  3. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Your opinion is noted and I respect your right to have it. But I’m lost about being in another person’s shoes over the fact that In God We Trust is going to be displayed in schools. It IS the National Motto. It IS on our money. The foundation of this country is one that respects the right of freedom of religion but is largely based on Christian principles. We are a western nation founded on ideals and In God We Trust is one of them. We are not going to have some other diety take His place; oh we may coexist with them alright, but the USA is a western nation deeply rooted in the tenets and principles of Christianity. A few may Trust Buddha, allah, a hairy Krishna or whatever, but the national consciousness is Christian.


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  4. Snattlerake

    Snattlerake Sharpshooter

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    ^^^^^ AMEN! ^^^^^
     
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  5. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure are a lot of generalizations being spouted here. When we say something that sounds definitive, it’s good to back it up with evidence. The one that comes to mind is about power corrupting; I don’t believe absolute power absolutely corrupts everyone; some perhaps, even many, but not everyone. That’s an old cliché that cannot be absolutely proven. It is attributed to Lord Acton, a British Historian from the late 19th and early 20th century. He was a pretty well spoken and smart fellow.

    https://acton.org/research/lord-acton-quote-archive

    But some later research shows this may not always be true: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-power-corrupts-37165345/

    Abe Lincoln, considered by many historians to be the finest President we've had, said this: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” (Also from the above Smithsonian article)

    The above referenced article sums it up like this: Power doesn't always corrupt; it heightens pre-existing ethical tendencies.
     
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  6. Tanis143

    Tanis143 Sharpshooter

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    Considering the amount of rulers who had absolute power and were considered good and kind vs those who abused that power, its safe to say a majority of the time the saying I quoted holds true. Lincoln didn't have absolute power so using him as a litmus test doesn't field a good example. And the saying puts corrupts before absolutely, not after. But, power does corrupt. That is evident throughout history and modern times.

    Now one could make the argument that those that claimed a religion but acted corruptly were not true followers of that religion. I agree, however this ties further into my point that power corrupts. Those that were in power corrupted their religion to fit their end game. Those who did not agree or go along with the program got a one way ticket to test their theological teachings about the afterlife. Even today, with as many people who identify as Christian, how many actually live as the bible instructed? Can you call them true Christians? But, this all wraps back to my original statement: You do not need religion to be a good person and lack of religion does not make you evil. Saying our political leaders need religion to govern properly is misguided. Yes, if they lived by the tenets of the bible completely, they would be good leaders. But very few have shown this. More or less most of them posture for their voter base but act completely different when in office.

    This is why the framers put the power in the people. They sought to dilute the powers of the state to avoid that temptation of corruption. Unfortunately over the past 200 years corrupt individuals have twisted what the framers wrought to where corruption runs rampant throughout all branches of the US government.
     
  7. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay.


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