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Kyler Murray expected to enter NFL draft

Discussion in 'Sports' started by JD8, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. JD8

    JD8 Sharpshooter

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    Like I've been saying you've done so much backpedaling and goalpost moving that it's becoming laughable. A number of things can happen in 6 years to ANY QB so it's a stupid bet. How about we go with your original statements.

    "Kyler isn't well suited for the NFL" <--------- Well he's likely getting drafted, possibly in the FIRST round. Wanna bet he gets drafted?

    "Well he’s not going to be a QB in the NFL" <------------- Wanna bet he starts as a QB at some point?

    Now you've gone too.... "well let's see what happens in 6 years"

    With Baker,

    "The Jury is still out on Baker" Well actually, most consider what he's done to be extraordinary because he's won more games than the 42 other QBs that have started for the Browns. More wins obviously now than the last three seasons combined. He did it in a dumpster fire of an organization and broke a passing TD record.

    "it's early to start building shrines". Nobody said that.... although I'll bet some in Cleveland would like to. I think most understand that it's not midway through the season and that he's had some significant success. When many said he wouldn't.
     
  2. emapples

    emapples Sharpshooter

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    Demonstrably false statment.Brian Hoyer won 10 games as the QB, Derek Anderson won 16, Tim Couch won 23 games? Braker has won 7 games?.....Hell Colt McCoy won 6 games for the Browns in his own year and we all know how that turned out.
     
  3. JD8

    JD8 Sharpshooter

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    Sorry, put a "the" instead where it shouldn't have gone and it's 41. But you should get the point.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_starting_quarterbacks

    Count the QBs..... Count the ones with less than 6 wins.

    Point was that he's done better as a rookie than a good majority and already been more consistent. Not a successful season in your book. Highly successful in others given the environment and circumstances.
     
  4. Okie4570

    Okie4570 Moderator Staff Member

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  5. emapples

    emapples Sharpshooter

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    You and I have a Symantec issue, successful is subjective it could easily be said that anyone anyt QB that lands at least 1 year contract as a starting QB is successfull. Hell most of them will earn more in that one year then we do in a lifetime. Luckily I feel better knowing they will pay more taxes then I will in that same lifetime.

    I consider John Elway, Dan Marino, Big Ben, Troy Aikman, Bree Favre, Joe Montana, etc those are true succes stories contrasting to RG3. Michael Vic, I consider them flops. I think Baker has a much better chance of being a long term success that a Kyler Murray.
     
  6. JD8

    JD8 Sharpshooter

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    No. Like keep saying.... you keep moving the goalposts in your argument.

    We've now progressed to long term "success."

    Well let's see here....

    Baker....
    Walked on to 2 Div I schools
    Broke Records at OU
    Won the Big 12 every year he played at OU
    Won the Heisman, after being a finalist the previous year
    Drafted #1
    Took a historically bad team and won more games with the team than the last 3 years combined.

    Now I know to fit your argument that this might not seem like much, or the "jury is still out." But by most accounts even if he fell off the earth next year he was STILL a success story. None of the individuals you posted accomplished what he has this point in his career.

    Kyler....

    Most people agree that this kid is a freak, his level of talent just isn't seen outside of a every other decade or so. Now I get you don't see it that he would do well in the NFL, there's an aging mentality that you can't scramble, or run, and have to be tall, in the NFL, to do well. When several QBs have done it for years. Now they aren't true "running" QBs but neither is Kyler. Kyler is expected to be drafted in the 1st round of the NFL too, after being drafted in the 1st round of MLB, how many times has that happened? It's reported that the Patriots are salivating over him. In which Belichick is probably not aware of your opinion, you should give him a call.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 7:54 AM
  7. emapples

    emapples Sharpshooter

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    I’m not really moving goal posts your a fan boy....I get it ....you’re all things OU, they send the best people to the NFL in any position and you pray to your Baker shrine as your Murray shrine is under construction.

    What I am saying is the NFL story books are littered with top NCAA picks that didn’t really pan out, lots of quarterbacks that we’re the hottest thing since sliced bread when they were in college and they flopped in the NFL

    Robert Griffith III, Jamarcus Russel, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Michael Vic, Johnny Manziel, David Carr, Danny Wuerffel and let us not forget Ryan Leaf (arguably the king of NFL floppery) a lot of big names and Heisman winners in this group.

    Their is a big difference between being at the top of the game in the NCAA and the NFL. As I mentioned before anyone who makes it to a contract signing as QB on any NFL team is likely a succes if they can manage their money. But a long an prolific college career doesn’t always translate to a long and prolific NFL career, QB’s can flop after a year or two and get drummed out, could be injuries, could be personal issues, could be piss poor coaching there are many reasons they just don’t quite make the next step. Hell Heisman winners have an abysmal NFL record overall, hence the “Heisman Curse” and the curse affects QB’s more than any other position.

    Yes Baker has had an amazing college career, he stayed healthy, he started for 3 years he had a prolific career in College and he’s had good start for a cursed team. I do believe the jury is still out on his pro career, but I think he’s healthy enough and smart enough to build a solid long term career I just wish it wasn’t with Cleveland, I’m not sure but I think Jesus may not be a Browns fan.

    As for Murray, and Belichick might be salivating over Murray , and if there was ever a coach who could develope a system around a QB it would be old Hoody himself. With that said Shanahan was probably slobbering to when they traded up to get RG3, same could be said for Vince Young, Matt Leinart, etc and their respective coaches.

    I’d love to see an OU QB actually have a solid career and win a Super Bowl, Jason White, Josh Heupel, Sam Bradford, none really left a lasting mark on the NFL. The best we can offer is Troy Aikman but he transferred to UCLA to become a star. Bradford had the best tools and he never could play long enough to reach his potential.

    Beleive what you want, I still think it’s early for Baker and I hope I’m wrong about Murray but the odds of two successive Heisman winning QB’s from the same college and both becoming NFL studs.......well those odds are low.

    If either ever make it to the Super Bowl I’ll give a 100 bucks on principle alone, and he happy to do so
     
  8. Slim Deal

    Slim Deal Sharpshooter

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    What a great group of whatevers. Can't really call them washouts etc. Micheal Vick, love him or hate him he was a winner and could play the game. RGIII couldn't take the beating and Johnny Manziel was a nobody who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. The others blah, didn't really pay attention to them.
     
  9. emapples

    emapples Sharpshooter

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    Michale Vick was by far the best of the group, but his personal problems robbed him of some critical (prime) years. if it weren’t for Dog Fighting and Prison ...he would have had a much better career. That said in today’s game the dogfighting would have permanently ended his career, he’d have never gotten a second chance.

    Hell I forgot Chris Weinke (Heisman Winner), Eric Crouch (Heisman Winner), Tim Tebow (Heisman Winner) also flops and I really wanted Tebow to make it, you could say Marriott isn’t exactly lighting it up, Lmar Jackson is on deck so we will see if he’s received a generous portion of the curse or not. I’m pretty sure Flacco is our and Jackson is in.

    Who’s the last Heisman Winner from the BIG 12 that was really successful? I’m gonna have to go with Barry Sanders? The Heisman means nothing in the pro’s albeit RB’s seem to do better then the QB’s.
     
  10. JD8

    JD8 Sharpshooter

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    It's cute when people start to lose an argument and they resort to insults. Nothing I said wasn't a fact, and I'm sorry you don't like it. Didn't say he was the best ever? Nope. Stated the facts at what he had done, that it translates to a success in most eyes. You're just huffy because most of what you've said is complete BS because you don't understand you're comparing apples to oranges. Surely there's been over hyped 1st round picks every year for as long as I can remember. But it doesn't take rocket science to figure out why these two are different with regards to their chances in the NFL. The whole reason I posted what I did was to show what sets these two apart. Granted the initial comment was that Kyler won't fit or won't be a QB in the NFL.... now it's evolved.

    Nobody is saying the transition to the NFL isn't tough and what you're relaying is common knowledge. Well aware of the flops that have happened, but let's take Ryan Leaf for example...... wanna compare him and Baker? How about Vince Young or Vic? Two more head cases. One thing you need to realize is that there's a mentality that goes with the transition. I believe Baker has it, given his history, he has had to earn everything he achieved and then some. Kyler again is just a freak, he's got an arm easily as good as Baker and the running ability of Russel Wilson. Nobody you mentioned had his ability in college in two sports. Now maybe he gets drafted, becomes a head case and folds, or just doesn't cut it....it surely could happen.

    I coulda told you that Heupel, White, Bradford wouldn't go anywhere, although Bradford lasted longer than I thought. The problem with Bradford was that he was a statue and the DEs/Pass Rush was evolving. Hence all of my comments about mobility. I even had slight reservations about Baker until I watched the first half of the Browns season. He's the same Baker as college so I think he will be fine. Outside of that, there are a TON of variables.

    Finally, the "pro-type" QB theory is dead, again, a majority of your best and most accomplished QBs in the NFL right now aren't huge by any means. So while a short guy has a bit of disadvantage, Kyler's speed and arm give him a step up from anyone you've mentioned that flopped or anyone that we've seen recently out of college. Again, you might want to call up the Patriots and let them know your theory.
     

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