Lessons from COVID; "Bugging Out"

HeyEng

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
335
Reaction score
441
Location
OK
Food for thought:

A very common disaster response plan for many preppers and survivalists is that they will "bug out" to some remote location away from any big city and live off the grid --self sufficiently.

One thing that this COVID-19 emergency is showing us is that the government -- state and local governments-- are interested in blocking the public's use of public highways and surface streets in times of crisis. Only a handful of such road blockages or checkpoints have taken place, but they are popping up across the country.

There's also discrimination going on, where local officials are identifying out-of-area travelers and, based on that status as a stranger from some other place, they are ordering them into home confinement or quarantine (even without those people having any symptoms of any illness.)

Your right to travel can be infringed.

Survivalists and preppers are not talking about this, it seems. Very few threads about emergency preparedness talk about the problems of travel during times of a travel ban. Everybody seems to assume that if you take enough fuel and guns, you can just drive to your destination with the ability to shoot anybody that you see who tries to hassle you along the way.

Is that a reasonable plan when the people putting up a roadblock in front of you may be law enforcement?

How you might deal with a gang of highway robbers or extortionists that block the roads illegally (and make you pay a tribute or tax before they allow you to pass) is both practically and legally different from when the authorities are blocking your road.

This topic is not about the coronavirus. That is just the latest example of the government interfering on your right to travel during emergency circumstances.

It happens all the time during tornadoes, hurricanes and other natural disasters. The government orders evacuations and then after a certain point in time announces that in the danger zone nobody is allowed to be out in public --no travel at all.

For snowstorms, the government often issues a stay at home order that effectively puts everybody under house arrest. Nobody is allowed to drive on the roads, and in some cities and counties they even say you're not allowed to go walking through the snow.

During the Bundy Gang occupation of a federal wildlife refuge and government office building in Oregon a couple years ago, the government shut down not only all the roads in the immediate vicinity of that incident, but they also set up other roadblocks specifically to screen people traveling in that direction to make sure they weren't right-wing allies of the gang. Any such people were detained and then forced to turn around they were not allowed to proceed forward even though they were breaking no laws, and even if there were other things for them to do and visit in the direction they were heading other than to go to the wildlife refuge.

Remember Hurricane Katrina? Not only did cops go around kicking down doors and confiscating guns from citizens but they also opened fire on a group of unarmed persons who were walking down a public road and crossing a public highway bridge --apparently for the "offense" of not obeying police orders issued earlier to evacuate, and then violating a second order to stay off the streets.


I think we should be talking about this more, and not just assuming that in a [much bigger] emergency that triggers our hard-core survival plan--and a strong Government crackdown on civil liberties in general and freedom of movement in particular --that we will be free to hop in our vehicles and drive wherever we want so long as we carry the fuel we need and don't depend on gas stations.
 

okierider

Sharpshooter
Staff Member
Supporting Member
Special Hen Moderator Moderator Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
7,038
Reaction score
8,793
Location
OKC
One way to look at the scenario you bring up is in a bug out situation those people you say are running roadblock are going to be bugging out as well.
This is a virus we as a country are trying to stop, not a true bug out situation thank goodness. Just a containment.
 

dennishoddy

Sharpshooter
Supporting Member
Special Hen Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
76,195
Reaction score
39,042
Location
Ponca City Ok
Food for thought:

A very common disaster response plan for many preppers and survivalists is that they will "bug out" to some remote location away from any big city and live off the grid --self sufficiently.

One thing that this COVID-19 emergency is showing us is that the government -- state and local governments-- are interested in blocking the public's use of public highways and surface streets in times of crisis. Only a handful of such road blockages or checkpoints have taken place, but they are popping up across the country.

There's also discrimination going on, where local officials are identifying out-of-area travelers and, based on that status as a stranger from some other place, they are ordering them into home confinement or quarantine (even without those people having any symptoms of any illness.)

Your right to travel can be infringed.

Survivalists and preppers are not talking about this, it seems. Very few threads about emergency preparedness talk about the problems of travel during times of a travel ban. Everybody seems to assume that if you take enough fuel and guns, you can just drive to your destination with the ability to shoot anybody that you see who tries to hassle you along the way.

Is that a reasonable plan when the people putting up a roadblock in front of you may be law enforcement?

How you might deal with a gang of highway robbers or extortionists that block the roads illegally (and make you pay a tribute or tax before they allow you to pass) is both practically and legally different from when the authorities are blocking your road.

This topic is not about the coronavirus. That is just the latest example of the government interfering on your right to travel during emergency circumstances.

It happens all the time during tornadoes, hurricanes and other natural disasters. The government orders evacuations and then after a certain point in time announces that in the danger zone nobody is allowed to be out in public --no travel at all.

For snowstorms, the government often issues a stay at home order that effectively puts everybody under house arrest. Nobody is allowed to drive on the roads, and in some cities and counties they even say you're not allowed to go walking through the snow.

During the Bundy Gang occupation of a federal wildlife refuge and government office building in Oregon a couple years ago, the government shut down not only all the roads in the immediate vicinity of that incident, but they also set up other roadblocks specifically to screen people traveling in that direction to make sure they weren't right-wing allies of the gang. Any such people were detained and then forced to turn around they were not allowed to proceed forward even though they were breaking no laws, and even if there were other things for them to do and visit in the direction they were heading other than to go to the wildlife refuge.

Remember Hurricane Katrina? Not only did cops go around kicking down doors and confiscating guns from citizens but they also opened fire on a group of unarmed persons who were walking down a public road and crossing a public highway bridge --apparently for the "offense" of not obeying police orders issued earlier to evacuate, and then violating a second order to stay off the streets.


I think we should be talking about this more, and not just assuming that in a [much bigger] emergency that triggers our hard-core survival plan--and a strong Government crackdown on civil liberties in general and freedom of movement in particular --that we will be free to hop in our vehicles and drive wherever we want so long as we carry the fuel we need and don't depend on gas stations.

You made some good points about what has happened in the past. Truthful facts.
The Katrina incident brought some states to their senses by passing laws that do not allow what happened after that incident where guns were forcibly taken. Oklahoma being one of them that doesn't now allow our guns to be taken during a state of emergency.
We know that motorists and pilots from NY are being stopped on the roads and house to house searches are being done in Rhode Island looking for those fleeing from NYC.

The Bundy situation was not avoidable. There was a perceived crime scene that as I understand it is enforceable to keep traffic away for "public safety". How that public safety thing turned out I don't know. BTW the government was in the wrong during the Bundy incident just like they were during the Katrina hurricane.

When an F5 tornado went through Andover Ks the mayor of the city did not allow the residents back into their homes to recover anything.
"The Andover example

The lack of preparation was also evident in the days following the tornado.

Residents whose houses had been damaged or destroyed by the tornado were forbidden from returning to their homes to search for keepsakes or other valuables.

Bulldozers were used in the search for human remains — and then to shove the debris into large central piles awaiting removal.

"Everybody uses the Andover example in debris management," Schmidt said. "This is what you don't do, and this is why.

"In their hurry to get things cleaned up, they were forgetting about the rights of the residents," he added. "What little they have, they need to be allowed to go through it, to try to find something. It's their life."
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article1062349.html

Peoples entire lives including gun safes and hardened file cabinets that were not damaged and still anchored to the concrete, etc were just taken away and buried in landfills.

I can see the reasoning for vehicle not being allowed on the road during periods of major ice and snow events. It only takes one two wheel drive (lol! the 4wd vs 2wd threads are epic)blocking an intersection that will prevent emergency vehicles access to your home where grandma is having a heart attack.
 

donner

Sharpshooter
Special Hen
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
5,475
Reaction score
1,559
Location
Oxford, MS
I often pass a bridge that has a state historic marker about how the 'crossing' was closed by the state board of health during an outbreak of yellow fever in 1898, effectively isolating two infected towns.

I'm guessing it isn't hard to find legal support for government agents closing roadways for 'safety' reasons. Limiting interstate travel might be more interesting to look at, but i don't know that they *must* let you travel certain roads. In fact, since driving at all is a licensed 'privilege', i bet there is more support for limits for drivers than we realize.
 

Snattlerake

Conservitum Americum
Special Hen
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
13,451
Reaction score
17,367
Location
OKC
You made some good points about what has happened in the past. Truthful facts.
The Katrina incident brought some states to their senses by passing laws that do not allow what happened after that incident where guns were forcibly taken. Oklahoma being one of them that doesn't now allow our guns to be taken during a state of emergency.
We know that motorists and pilots from NY are being stopped on the roads and house to house searches are being done in Rhode Island looking for those fleeing from NYC.

The Bundy situation was not avoidable. There was a perceived crime scene that as I understand it is enforceable to keep traffic away for "public safety". How that public safety thing turned out I don't know. BTW the government was in the wrong during the Bundy incident just like they were during the Katrina hurricane.

When an F5 tornado went through Andover Ks the mayor of the city did not allow the residents back into their homes to recover anything.
"The Andover example

The lack of preparation was also evident in the days following the tornado.

Residents whose houses had been damaged or destroyed by the tornado were forbidden from returning to their homes to search for keepsakes or other valuables.

Bulldozers were used in the search for human remains — and then to shove the debris into large central piles awaiting removal.

"Everybody uses the Andover example in debris management," Schmidt said. "This is what you don't do, and this is why.

"In their hurry to get things cleaned up, they were forgetting about the rights of the residents," he added. "What little they have, they need to be allowed to go through it, to try to find something. It's their life."
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article1062349.html

Peoples entire lives including gun safes and hardened file cabinets that were not damaged and still anchored to the concrete, etc were just taken away and buried in landfills.

I can see the reasoning for vehicle not being allowed on the road during periods of major ice and snow events. It only takes one two wheel drive (lol! the 4wd vs 2wd threads are epic)blocking an intersection that will prevent emergency vehicles access to your home where grandma is having a heart attack.

It seems the City of Andover has a history of civil rights violations. Had I had on me a tape recorder I would have owned that city.
 

Snattlerake

Conservitum Americum
Special Hen
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
13,451
Reaction score
17,367
Location
OKC
EUNraQoVAAAf6Ld
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom