Let me ask you a self-defense Oklahoma question.

[Tom's Thumb]

Here's where a mob attacked folks at a state fair.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/126825018.html

I have a license to carry concealed. I alternate between an 8 shot Sig 9mm and a Glock 19.

If you are licensed to carry and witness a mob beating, say, an elderly couple, in OK are we allowed/authorized to use lethal force to save them?

Second question, if you are in public, say a park, and you are attacked by such a mob, are you allowed/authorized to use lethal force to protect yourself?

I know that in your home you have no duty to retreat, but what about the other scenarios?

thanx for your time.

 

[dru]

My CCW instructor told me that in the situation of witnessing a beating of someone who does not fall into the "special relationship" categories (spouse, children, immediate family, employer/employee, etc.) that it was best to just stay out of it. He also mentioned that if you just were unable to restrain yourself, to be very careful of what you were doing because you would be legally stepping into the shoes of the person you were defending.

On the second question, remember the disparity of force principle. If you are in a 1-on-1 regular fight with someone, deadly force will probably not be justified. However, if you have a "mob" attacking you and you had genuinely done nothing to provoke the attack and were in a place you were legally allowed to be would a reasonable person feel that he/she was in "imminent danger of death or great bodily harm"? That is the key phrase as I understand it in the OSDA. I would argue that in a mob situation, the answer would be yes.

In your home, you just don't have "no duty to retreat" Within your home, you operate under castle doctrine laws which are considerably stronger than when you are just out and about which correspond to the "no duty to retreat" laws aka stand your ground.

Just nitpicking here: Probably better to put this over in a more appropriate forum like the self defense and CCW forum. And what's up with the "Lemme axe you..."

 

[Honey Badger]

That it happened at a state fair is the problem. You can't carry a firearm on state owned property. The fairgrounds would considered state owned property. Sucks huh?

 

[Big House]

That it happened at a state fair is the problem. You can't carry a firearm on state owned property. The fairgrounds would considered state owned property. Sucks huh?

It happened outside of the states property, if I recall correctly.

 

[KOPBET]

That it happened at a state fair is the problem. You can't carry a firearm on state owned property. The fairgrounds would considered state owned property. Sucks huh?

B. For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:
.
.
.
4 Any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds; provided nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.

 

[MBowman325]

Title 21 / 1289.25, Section B,1 covers you if you're in your car.

Section D covers you anywhere you have the right to be, i.e. a park. Just don't go inside any structure.

The way I was taught was that you didn't use deadly force to come the the aid of anyone you did not have a relationship to. The example given in class was the lady who drew down on some federal agents thinking they were the bad guys while they were after the real bad guys.

 

[Glocktogo]

Here's where black mobs attacked white folks at a state fair.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/126825018.html

I have a license to carry concealed. I alternate between an 8 shot Sig 9mm and a Glock 19.

If you are licensed to carry and witness a mob beating, say, an elderly couple, in OK are we allowed/authorized to use lethal force to save them?

Second question, if you are in public, say a park, and you are attacked by such a mob, are you allowed/authorized to use lethal force to protect yourself?

I know that in your home you have no duty to retreat, but what about the other scenarios?

thanx for your time.

You can't use deadly force under the SDA to "rescue" someone you don't know. You can however use deadly force if you have reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, say, if they tried to attack you as you aided the elderly couple. It's a fine line and not one you want to approach lightly.

When considering the use of deadly force against a large group of unarmed assailants, you also need to be able to articulate a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm and disparity of force. Yet again, a line you should actively avoid approaching. While it's obvious from the multiple eyewitness reports that the mob attack at the WI State fair was racially motivated, you have to understand that shooting a young black person in a mob setting will nonetheless result in YOU being portrayed in the media as a racist killer. You have no duty to retreat in OK, but under these circumstances, you'd be a fool not to. The media and DA's offices around here do not suffer law abiding fools lightly.

I believe I could articulate disparity of force and reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm under the circumstances portrayed, but I'd want the deck stacked further in my favor if it came to that.

 

[MBowman325]

One other thing of note - mobs tend to react in a illogical and unpredictable fashion... Retreat is really the best option again a mob, otherwise it's lotsa blood, assume you carry the firepower necessary to disperse the crowd (which may be one magazine or more than you'll have...) Having to retreat while shooting would become a nightmare I'd think...

I say one magazine versus one round because I have a hard time believing only one round would be squeezed off if the hammer started to fall...

 

[SMS]

That it happened at a state fair is the problem. You can't carry a firearm on state owned property. The fairgrounds would considered state owned property. Sucks huh?

Oh lord, here we go again.

 

[Werewolf]

That it happened at a state fair is the problem. You can't carry a firearm on state owned property. The fairgrounds would considered state owned property. Sucks huh?

Carry law in OK exempts the state fairgrounds. You can carry there.