Load development for the individual firearm, 6.5 Creedmoor

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diggler1833

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Unless one is trying to achieve consistent 1/4 MOA accuracy, you can save a bit of money by not having to buy the most expensive reloading equipment available...and I'm a "buy once, cry once" kind of guy.

I know dudes are going to want to flame me for this, and that is fine. Getting into reloading needs to be fun and not break the bank...especially for hunting rifles where 1 MOA accuracy is not only acceptable, but also often the best many factory rifles can shoot.

I do have one set of Forester dies. They are very nice indeed. I would not hesitate to buy more should the need arise. I also have one set of basic Redding dies for my 7mm RM. I had a Redding competition seater die set for my .260 when I had a full blown custom rifle in that chambering, and it was very nice too

VLD seating stems can definitely reduce deformity on the bullets. Your polymer tips usually don't get deformed, but you may press a very slight ring somewhere between the tip and the ogive. You'll often see this more in secant ogives found on VLD style bullets.

However, I have multiple legitimate 1/2 MOA or better rifles that use handloads made with a basic RCBS Rock Chucker press and basic RCBS (not the best quality dies). I'm not even using competition seater dies...reloading heresy at its best.

I have great luck with Starline brass. Bolt Action Reloading on YouTube did a test of different brass manufacturers in 6.5 Creedmoor, and Starline actually won in a category or two...its not Lapua or Alpha quality, but it is a lot closer than some people give it credit for.

Sine I'll get called out, here's my load development with my Salvage (Savage) 6.5 Creedmoor using 120gr Nosler BT and IMR-4895. ES and SD aren't super great, and perhaps some of that could be attributed to powder volume (~85% case fill) and perhaps maybe a better die set might help too. *These were 4-shot groups.
20210801_184901.jpg


^ I've shot 1.5" three shot groups with that load at 300 yards. It is my F-I-Ls hunting rifle, and I've since swapped to 129gr SST and H100V.

Here's another junk RCBS die group at 250 yards out of my FN SPR. It is only three shots, but was about 1.5" too. This rifle shot .419" for five shots with the 165gr Nosler BT over Varget.
20220118_140929.jpg

20210505_161206.jpg


I've got a bunch more garbage like this on my computer for about 5-6 more rifles with *hunting* bullets. I'm just uploading these off my phone to back my position that prep and attention to detail like jcann posted in his link make the most difference to me.

I buy and load a lot of once fired brass. I always FL size to .002-.003 under my fired shoulder size...then debur the flash hole and uniform the primer pocket. After that I manually trim (takes more time, but I'm fine with that) within .002 of "trim to" length, and manually again chamfer and debur the case mouth using the same number of twists for each piece of brass. I'll prime with a hand primer, and then manually throw each charge weight onto a beam scale to an anal-retentive level of being within a granule or two of each other. I think that this step has probably more bearing on my accuracy than anything else. Then I seat using my standard dies. Nothing of what I do screams quality equipment or benchrest procedures, but it works very well for me.

I'm pretty sure that Gavin dude of the Ultimate Reloader on YouTube would have an aneurysm if he saw my process. Some people just can't get over that you can load very accurate ammunition with the basic stuff. That isn't a crack at competition shooters at all...I'm shooting at deer to 400 yards and steel to a max of 900, not trying to score X's at 1,000. Different needs there.
 

cdschoonie

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cdschoonie

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Unless one is trying to achieve consistent 1/4 MOA accuracy, you can save a bit of money by not having to buy the most expensive reloading equipment available...and I'm a "buy once, cry once" kind of guy.

I know dudes are going to want to flame me for this, and that is fine. Getting into reloading needs to be fun and not break the bank...especially for hunting rifles where 1 MOA accuracy is not only acceptable, but also often the best many factory rifles can shoot.

I do have one set of Forester dies. They are very nice indeed. I would not hesitate to buy more should the need arise. I also have one set of basic Redding dies for my 7mm RM. I had a Redding competition seater die set for my .260 when I had a full blown custom rifle in that chambering, and it was very nice too

VLD seating stems can definitely reduce deformity on the bullets. Your polymer tips usually don't get deformed, but you may press a very slight ring somewhere between the tip and the ogive. You'll often see this more in secant ogives found on VLD style bullets.

However, I have multiple legitimate 1/2 MOA or better rifles that use handloads made with a basic RCBS Rock Chucker press and basic RCBS (not the best quality dies). I'm not even using competition seater dies...reloading heresy at its best.

I have great luck with Starline brass. Bolt Action Reloading on YouTube did a test of different brass manufacturers in 6.5 Creedmoor, and Starline actually won in a category or two...its not Lapua or Alpha quality, but it is a lot closer than some people give it credit for.

Sine I'll get called out, here's my load development with my Salvage (Savage) 6.5 Creedmoor using 120gr Nosler BT and IMR-4895. ES and SD aren't super great, and perhaps some of that could be attributed to powder volume (~85% case fill) and perhaps maybe a better die set might help too. *These were 4-shot groups.
View attachment 257365

^ I've shot 1.5" three shot groups with that load at 300 yards. It is my F-I-Ls hunting rifle, and I've since swapped to 129gr SST and H100V.

Here's another junk RCBS die group at 250 yards out of my FN SPR. It is only three shots, but was about 1.5" too. This rifle shot .419" for five shots with the 165gr Nosler BT over Varget.
View attachment 257367
View attachment 257366

I've got a bunch more garbage like this on my computer for about 5-6 more rifles with *hunting* bullets. I'm just uploading these off my phone to back my position that prep and attention to detail like jcann posted in his link make the most difference to me.

I buy and load a lot of once fired brass. I always FL size to .002-.003 under my fired shoulder size...then debur the flash hole and uniform the primer pocket. After that I manually trim (takes more time, but I'm fine with that) within .002 of "trim to" length, and manually again chamfer and debur the case mouth using the same number of twists for each piece of brass. I'll prime with a hand primer, and then manually throw each charge weight onto a beam scale to an anal-retentive level of being within a granule or two of each other. I think that this step has probably more bearing on my accuracy than anything else. Then I seat using my standard dies. Nothing of what I do screams quality equipment or benchrest procedures, but it works very well for me.

I'm pretty sure that Gavin dude of the Ultimate Reloader on YouTube would have an aneurysm if he saw my process. Some people just can't get over that you can load very accurate ammunition with the basic stuff. That isn't a crack at competition shooters at all...I'm shooting at deer to 400 yards and steel to a max of 900, not trying to score X's at 1,000. Different needs there.
Very encouraging for sure. I think I may do the Hornady dies, get the Microjust and stem, if it turns out I need 2-3 of the stems, I may just get the Forster. My only fear with the Forster, is that it doesn’t crimp. Of course with proper neck tension I shouldn’t need a crimp.
I like that you’ve used 4895 & Hybrid 100v. These are 2 more I have which I can test with. You said it’s IMR 4895, it’s H4895 that I have, but I can adjust for that. What are your loads for these 2, with the 129 SSTs? I have both the smaller and 140 SSTs.
 

cdschoonie

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This was a write up I made several years ago. I still shoot this rifle and it still produces <1/2moa accuracy at 100 yards. I routinely take it out to 945 yards with excellent results and to 1500 yards with very good results.

https://www.okshooters.com/threads/case-preping-for-match-ammo.260849/
Good thread. I’m thinking, the best thing for me to concentrate on first, is if I can achieve MOA consistently, then I can work on sub. Hell if I can average 1 - 1.5 at 100, and 1.5 to 2 MOA at 200 yards, I’ll feel confident enough to start shrinking it.

Until that happens, I imagine the Hornady with the microplus stems, as well as the RCBS @thor447 gave me (thank you so very much again for the kindness), along with the Starline, Hornady, Winchester, even the range brass I’ve acquired will suffice for playing with and learning off of. Once I start to get the hang of it, I’ll start to order 100 here, 100 there of Lapua and Peterson, as well as better dies. It will give me time to save up.

While I’d give my left n… er arm for a custom built precision, my Savage will fill its purpose.

I have a game plan for baby steps:

1) First on the agenda starts with brass prep, the perfect (for mine and my son’s rifles) length, shoulders, headspace, etc..

2) Load (bullet, powder, and their weights).

3) Seating depth, along with neck tension.

4) Well, let’s worry about crawling before walking, so refer back to #1. 😂
 

diggler1833

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Very encouraging for sure. I think I may do the Hornady dies, get the Microjust and stem, if it turns out I need 2-3 of the stems, I may just get the Forster. My only fear with the Forster, is that it doesn’t crimp. Of course with proper neck tension I shouldn’t need a crimp.
I like that you’ve used 4895 & Hybrid 100v. These are 2 more I have which I can test with. You said it’s IMR 4895, it’s H4895 that I have, but I can adjust for that. What are your loads for these 2, with the 129 SSTs? I have both the smaller and 140 SSTs.

Hornady dies should do you well.

I have some H4895 loads as well for one of my .308 pig rifles, and it shoots sub-MOA with both the 130gr TTSX and 150gr SST. I use that powder there due to its temperature stability as I might be using it in a 25 degree winter night or a 85 degree summer night.

IMR-4895 and H100V are more sensitive to temperature changes, but the work around is that I do load development during weather similar to hunting season (Jan - Mar).

My IMR-4895 load is on the cardboard target...38.8gr under a 120gr NBT. I've had decent luck with that exact bullet in hogs out of my 6.5 Grendel, but I think that the bullet might come apart too quick on a shoulder/quartering shot on a deer when pushed another 400 FOS faster to make me comfortable.

My H100V load is 41.6gr under the 129 SST. That bullet is a little more finicky in my rifle, but it definitely has a node there. I shot a second group with that load later in bad weather and was still under 3/4 MOA, and put another four shots into a 1 MOA group at 250 yards. *seating depth with secant ogives has as much to do with accuracy as charge weights*.

Here's that target during load development. 41.6 gave me .365" for four shots then, and a .7 something when I confirmed it in bad weather. I didn't like how it consistently put one shot low and right, but it didn't seem to matter at 250.
20220221_164443.jpg


250 target. It was fired the same day under the same conditions. I shoot from my shop which has my reloading bench in it, so tweaking and confirmation take very little time.
20220225_113243.jpg
 
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cdschoonie

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One thing I’m sure of, I need to start saving for a better case trimmer. Right now I’m using cheap, simple, and very “not good” for consistency, Lee ball cutter, with a drill and Lee case length gauges. Maybe something like the Hornady cam lock trimmer. I’d like to to get the best bang for my buck, hopefully $100 max, any ideas? Suggestions?
 

swampratt

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Take the ball off that lee cutter and chuck the cutter in a drill press with the case length gauge screwed in. Run it at the Slowest speed.
Attach the lock stud and shell holder to a case and run it up the stem.
Holding the case and lock stud by hand.
Apply same pressure to each case .

I get exact lengths and very quick on top of that.

Then Lyman VLD chamfer the mouth etc etc.
The Lee set up works very well like that.
 

swampratt

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I will add this when i did my brass fail testing shooting at 100 yards i did not trim my cases until the case got into the rifle throat.
This was .030 or .035" past max trim length.
My accuracy never changed all were under 1" groups at 100 yards and powder was not weighed on a scale.

Case neck surface impurities made more difference than length.
Cases were only hand cleaned and necks brushed out with spinning nylon bore brush.

If you are adding a crimp then case length becomes important.
I do not crimp.
 

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