Man Born in 1846 Talks About the 1860s and Fighting in the Civil War - Restored Audio..sounds like today IMO

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okcBob

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It’s always been a divide and conquer world, it’s a bunch of fakes IMO.
Hows our noble Union doing today? It’s all about power and greed

Slavery is worse today than 100s of years ago. Takes money and a few hours. I hear white meat is vogue currently 😢
I’m talking about legal, constitutional slavery by race. In the USA owning slaves is illegal. Here in America slavery is not worse today than before the civil war. If there are slaves today, they are being held illegally. Big difference
 

sherrick13

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Slavery was most certainly a major issue between the states in 1860. But it wasn't the ONLY issue, as the crap is taught today.

Slavery still exists. But it is in a protected class so we don't talk about it.

And then there is still basically indentured servitude and plantations with the welfare class, but we aren't supposed to talk about that either.
 

TedKennedy

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I’m talking about legal, constitutional slavery by race. In the USA owning slaves is illegal. Here in America slavery is not worse today than before the civil war. If there are slaves today, they are being held illegally. Big difference
Whoops!
Are you going to pretend there weren't black slaveowners in the South?

And I quite plainly stated that I don't support slavery.

Did the soldiers in WW2 fight to protect paycheck taxation? They MUST have supported that, because that what they were protecting!!!

Do you think all the Cherokee that waged war on the USA 1861-1865 did so to protect slavery?

I know one-dimensional views of the world are common, and preferred by politicians, but honestly there are more sides to this than that of a plantation-owning, slave-molesting rich guy.
 

ttown

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Denise should have a Cherokee card as her mom did but they want her to prove she was a freedman, really they just refuse her like she never applied, some of her family got theirs early in life and are afraid they will revolk there’s too.

A letter from your congressman is worthless.

Sad really, my ex was Cherokee, man you should hear the story when she broke her neck😡 They’re are too worried about their casinos rather than their people IMO.
 

okcBob

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Whoops!
Are you going to pretend there weren't black slaveowners in the South?

And I quite plainly stated that I don't support slavery.

Did the soldiers in WW2 fight to protect paycheck taxation? They MUST have supported that, because that what they were protecting!!!

Do you think all the Cherokee that waged war on the USA 1861-1865 did so to protect slavery?

I know one-dimensional views of the world are common, and preferred by politicians, but honestly there are more sides to this than that of a plantation-owning, slave-molesting rich guy.
No, but you support a country that put slavery in their constitution. So if you had your way, the result would have been continued evil of slavery.
I supported a country that outlawed slavery. I’m glad you didn’t get your way & the CSA lost & slavery was not continued for years on end. Comparing the evil of slavery to paycheck taxation? Come on we’re talking about pure evil here.

Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy, in his “Cornerstone Speech” proclaims that slavery and white supremacy were not only the cause for secession, but also the “cornerstone” of the Confederate nation. And this was your Vice President? I wouldn’t brag about that. He should be condemned, along with the CSA.
 
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TedKennedy

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No, but you support a country that put slavery in their constitution. So if you had your way, the result would have been continued evil of slavery.
I supported a country that outlawed slavery. I’m glad you didn’t get your way & the CSA lost & slavery was not continued for years on end. Comparing the evil of slavery to paycheck taxation? Come on we’re talking about pure evil here.

Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy, in his “Cornerstone Speech” proclaims that slavery and white supremacy were not only the cause for secession, but also the “cornerstone” of the Confederate nation. And this was your Vice President? I wouldn’t brag about that. He should be condemned, along with the CSA.
Damn, you're not very inclusive, are you?

The same US of A that sent union generals and soldiers out west after the war to steal land, break treaties and put Indians on reservations? The same heroic veterans that laid Vicksburg to siege? Burned Atlanta? Forced slaves back to the sugar plantations AFTER the emancipation proclamation?

To be 100% fair, it does not matter one whit what you or I think about it. That war is over, a centralized federal government is the result, and hoo-freaking ray for that.

Oh, yeah - did I say screw a bunch of yankees?
 

okcBob

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Damn, you're not very inclusive, are you?

The same US of A that sent union generals and soldiers out west after the war to steal land, break treaties and put Indians on reservations? The same heroic veterans that laid Vicksburg to siege? Burned Atlanta? Forced slaves back to the sugar plantations AFTER the emancipation proclamation?

To be 100% fair, it does not matter one whit what you or I think about it. That war is over, a centralized federal government is the result, and hoo-freaking ray for that.

Oh, yeah - did I say screw a bunch of yankees?
It must be hard to defend your country with the evil of slavery. Kinda like Germans defending their country in the 40’s. I don’t support that Holocaust thing, but we had Good economy & the trains ran on time. …., lol
 
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joegrizzy

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I think it's to be noted the *goals* of the war, if we could truly know them 150 years later.

for those asking "would you have preferred if the CSA had won the war?" i think there are contrasting views on what exactly that would result in. for instance: saying the war for "over slavery" or that the "south was fighting for slavery" is not always the same thing, especially considering the outcomes.

let me explain this way:

are you suggesting that if the CSA had won, that the laws *of the CSA* would be applied to the North as well?

had the northern states been incorporated into the Confederacy, (which itself is likely a foolish endeavor; if the CSA had won there's no reason the Union wouldn't have re-united the same at it did after CSA lost) are you suggesting they wouldn't be subject to the same protection of rights under the union that other states were? are you suggesting the South would have been imperialist in expansion and also legislation?

i think if one takes their constitutions at their words, it would be more suffice to think had the CSA won, the USA would have re-united under a more EU model wherein states functioned more like individual sovereign nations, but with some shared laws and currency (this is a maybe considering no fed bank or anything). this is far different than saying the south would *project* it's laws onto the North and/or any future westward expansion.

it's a matter of phrasing, but also considering the different responses to each possible way you phrase the question.

>was the North fighting to end slavery in the South?
>was the South fighting for slavery to exist *also in the North*?
>was the South fighting for slavery to exist *at all anywhere?*

if the goal was slavery at any cost, surely you would think even one state or territory wherein slavery were legal would be suffice. and you could easily argue this was the case, as we all know slavery was still legal AND practiced in places like pre statehood Oklahoma Indian Territory since the Proclamation meant jack diddly to the Tribes. So if the goal was slavery at any cost, you'd argue presumably the CSA *did* win, at least accomplish a goal.

if you think they were fighting for slavery to exist *anywhere in the world* they rightly won as well because we all know places, namely northern africa, where you can buy people. not to mention the human trafficking in america, namely by democrats. oddly enough, the *same* democrats, down *to the families* who brought the black people here on their boats and lobbied for slavery, to the point of funding the South. weird huh?

i think it's more obvious this *wasn't* the goal and it a poorly represented idea of the "cause" of the fighting.

either way, win or lose, north or south, the america of the 1850-1880's might as well have been a completely foreign nation because it has essentially nothing to do with the america zombie corpse of today. talking about the results of these battles is somewhat meaningless because whatever nation arose following that war was likely to lose to the same silent enemy that killed the former USA.

you know, those slave owners. you really think they lost?
 

TedKennedy

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It must be hard to defend your country with the evil of slavery. Kinda like Germans defending their country in the 40. I don’t support that Holocaust thing, but we had Good economy & the trains ran on time. …., lol
On the contrary, it's not hard at all. I can easily and confidently say that the USA forcing the Confederate States to submit was a bad outcome.

I can also, with the same confidence say that slavery in North America was evil, stupid, and we continue to suffer the fallout from it.

And for what it's worth, if I was a German in 1940 I'd probably take up arms for my country, as most patriotic citizens would. Given the choices of post-WW1 Germany, National Socialism would have been an easy choice.

Folks of 1860, 1933. 1940 didn't have the luxury of hindsight. They made their decisions based on the situation at hand.
 

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