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The Water Cooler
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Mass shooting at Oregon community college - 10-15 dead
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<blockquote data-quote="Glocktogo" data-source="post: 2798254" data-attributes="member: 1132"><p>First you have to understand that these aren't people with marginal personality (MP) or intellectual disorders (ID). They're severely mentally ill (SMI) people with major mental deficiencies. Now let's take the current state of the mental health system. It's completely broken and fractured. Crisis counseling is calling 911 and having an officer wait for a MH evaluator to come interview the subject. Absent an immediate threat (when the MH evaluator arrives, not at the time of the call) the reporting party is usually either left with the now temporarily calmed threat, or the ill person is taken to jail for a crime. Insurance for the mentally ill rarely covers in-patient treatment. You get a 30 minute Dr's visit and a Rx for some SSRI's with serious side effects to experiment with on your own. There are some private in-patient facilities that most families will never be able to afford. In the event of the jailed because they've been allowed to go too far already, they're thrown in with gen-pop and the treatment options aren't any better. Once the patience of family is exhausted and the jail time expires, many become homeless. Most homeless aren't on the street because there aren't ways to make money, but because they're too mentally challenged to cope with a job.</p><p></p><p>Does that sound like a good system? Because these are the remains of the system that was in place before the shift in mental health theories of the 60's & 70's. Here's a great timeline: <a href="http://useconomy.about.com/od/healthcarereform/fl/Deinstitutionalization.htm" target="_blank">http://useconomy.about.com/od/healthcarereform/fl/Deinstitutionalization.htm</a></p><p></p><p>I fully agree with it's synopsis: </p><p></p><p>Simply put, before we warehoused people with ID in exactly the same way we warehoused people with SMI. Then we threw the baby out with the bathwater. That started in 1965 with Medicaid and went into overdrive when Nixon made Supplemental Security Income available for the mentally disabled in the early 70's. This is a good read on the subject: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/12/what-happened-to-u-s-mental-health-care-after-deinstitutionalization/" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/12/what-happened-to-u-s-mental-health-care-after-deinstitutionalization/</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is one case where conservatives and liberals conspired to "do the right thing" for completely different reasons. The left wanted to free everyone from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and the right wanted to save money. Both sides failed. It now costs much more and is less humane than what was in place before it. We know why the fiscal conservatives did what they did, but if you want to understand the left, you need to read up on Dr. Thomas Szasz. He founded the Citizens Commission on Human Rights with the <u>Church of Scientology</u>. </p><p></p><p>Here's another great but long read on the history of mental health treatment ebb and flow in America: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html</a> and here's one on famous mass murder cases in post-institution America: <a href="http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/madness-deinstitutionalization-murder" target="_blank">http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/madness-deinstitutionalization-murder</a></p><p></p><p>Don't forget to separate the mentally ill from truly evil sociopaths like Klebold & Harris. Those little savages just needed to be put down. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You've obviously don't understand the nature of an enabler in a codependent relationship. I don't care whether we educate, guilt or scare people like Adam Lanza and Chris Mercer's mothers into going active on preventing their offspring from harming others. It's far better than enacting restrictions on 150 million gun owners, which BTW, absolutely will not work. </p><p></p><p>My point is simple. We need to separate MP & ID sufferers from SMI sufferers. Those with ID can be cared for in an outpatient setting without ever endangering anyone. SMI patients and their families need access to facilities that both contain AND treat them. In certain cases and with continuous monitoring, some SMI sufferers can be reintegrated into society. None of this has to affect those who suffer from routine, treatable mental concerns (MP). It doesn't have to affect gun owners either. </p><p></p><p>We need awareness education, funding treatment and most critically, dedicated facilities for SMI sufferers. It's a matter of public safety AND humane treatment of those whose shoes we'd never want to be in. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-shortname=":(" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glocktogo, post: 2798254, member: 1132"] First you have to understand that these aren't people with marginal personality (MP) or intellectual disorders (ID). They're severely mentally ill (SMI) people with major mental deficiencies. Now let's take the current state of the mental health system. It's completely broken and fractured. Crisis counseling is calling 911 and having an officer wait for a MH evaluator to come interview the subject. Absent an immediate threat (when the MH evaluator arrives, not at the time of the call) the reporting party is usually either left with the now temporarily calmed threat, or the ill person is taken to jail for a crime. Insurance for the mentally ill rarely covers in-patient treatment. You get a 30 minute Dr's visit and a Rx for some SSRI's with serious side effects to experiment with on your own. There are some private in-patient facilities that most families will never be able to afford. In the event of the jailed because they've been allowed to go too far already, they're thrown in with gen-pop and the treatment options aren't any better. Once the patience of family is exhausted and the jail time expires, many become homeless. Most homeless aren't on the street because there aren't ways to make money, but because they're too mentally challenged to cope with a job. Does that sound like a good system? Because these are the remains of the system that was in place before the shift in mental health theories of the 60's & 70's. Here's a great timeline: [url]http://useconomy.about.com/od/healthcarereform/fl/Deinstitutionalization.htm[/url] I fully agree with it's synopsis: Simply put, before we warehoused people with ID in exactly the same way we warehoused people with SMI. Then we threw the baby out with the bathwater. That started in 1965 with Medicaid and went into overdrive when Nixon made Supplemental Security Income available for the mentally disabled in the early 70's. This is a good read on the subject: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/12/what-happened-to-u-s-mental-health-care-after-deinstitutionalization/[/url] This is one case where conservatives and liberals conspired to "do the right thing" for completely different reasons. The left wanted to free everyone from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and the right wanted to save money. Both sides failed. It now costs much more and is less humane than what was in place before it. We know why the fiscal conservatives did what they did, but if you want to understand the left, you need to read up on Dr. Thomas Szasz. He founded the Citizens Commission on Human Rights with the [U]Church of Scientology[/U]. Here's another great but long read on the history of mental health treatment ebb and flow in America: [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html[/url] and here's one on famous mass murder cases in post-institution America: [url]http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/madness-deinstitutionalization-murder[/url] Don't forget to separate the mentally ill from truly evil sociopaths like Klebold & Harris. Those little savages just needed to be put down. :( You've obviously don't understand the nature of an enabler in a codependent relationship. I don't care whether we educate, guilt or scare people like Adam Lanza and Chris Mercer's mothers into going active on preventing their offspring from harming others. It's far better than enacting restrictions on 150 million gun owners, which BTW, absolutely will not work. My point is simple. We need to separate MP & ID sufferers from SMI sufferers. Those with ID can be cared for in an outpatient setting without ever endangering anyone. SMI patients and their families need access to facilities that both contain AND treat them. In certain cases and with continuous monitoring, some SMI sufferers can be reintegrated into society. None of this has to affect those who suffer from routine, treatable mental concerns (MP). It doesn't have to affect gun owners either. We need awareness education, funding treatment and most critically, dedicated facilities for SMI sufferers. It's a matter of public safety AND humane treatment of those whose shoes we'd never want to be in. :( [/QUOTE]
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