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The Range
Law & Order
Mcain agrees with Obama about changing stand your ground laws
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<blockquote data-quote="Freedom@AnyCost" data-source="post: 2268813" data-attributes="member: 29628"><p>Some would argue Obama has started, or continued, to violate the sovereignty of Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, etc. </p><p></p><p>Personally, I would argue the premise of the question serves as little more than a red herring; creating a debate about minor details that distract from the core issues tearing this country apart - corruption, graft, voter apathy & ignorance and the resulting deficits, debt and loss of our liberties. </p><p></p><p>But I digress.....</p><p></p><p>Interesting that the argument above incorporates high side death statistics throughout the nine year Iraq war that "Obama ended" and numbers lower than estimates of Afghan civilians killed, in the first three years alone, as a result of the Afghanastan war alone (excluding civilians killed in Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, etc.) which Obama has dramatically escalated during his time in office (exactly as McCain or Romney would have done in his place). </p><p></p><p>Those intellectual inconsistencies aside, the Iraq war did end during his first term, on or about December 2011, approximately 35 months into his presidency and nine years after it (the war) began. I'm not sure war for the sake of war McCain (or even Cheyney for that matter) could/would have drug it out any longer (it had served its purpose & lost public support), but if you see that as the fulfillment of a campaign promise - let's give him ONE. And if we count universal healthcare - let's give him ONE & ONE QUARTER. </p><p></p><p>Obviously my statement of ZERO was an exageration meant to be illistrurate a point - his campaign was, for the most part, an exercise in "Bait and Switch" - think deficits, which he promised to cut, but instead has increased each year in office (like Bush before him) resulting in more than doubling our national debt since he became President. </p><p></p><p>If we were to illustrate the relative danger to our country of Al Queda vs National Debt using threats posed to a camper surrounded by two representatives from the animal kingdom, the former would be represented by a swarm of gnats, the latter by a pride of lions. And what is the solution offered by both wings of "The Party" to protect the campsite, fight the gnats by bringing in more lions whose feces attract more gnats than their "swishing tails" kill!! The debt is a bigger threat to America than the bombs are to Al Queda. The debt threatens to bring our great country to its knees while the bombs it buys make Al Queda stronger. </p><p></p><p>The last point is the scariest irony of all - the war (particularly civilian casualties) is the most powerful Al Queda recruiting tool of all.....sigh. And so, we are on a path to perpetual threat of attack, fear, war, domestic surveilance, eroding personal liberties (including 2A) and ever higher national debt. It is a snowball that just keeps getting bigger and bigger.</p><p></p><p>BinLaden's goal was to bring our country down by using terrorism to create fear to disrupt our economy bringing about Roman style economic collapse. Not sure our economic collapse is playing out exactly as he anticipated, but it is playing out none the less - we now have $17,000,000,000,000 Debt largely attributable to the effects of his attack and, ironically, our response to it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Freedom@AnyCost, post: 2268813, member: 29628"] Some would argue Obama has started, or continued, to violate the sovereignty of Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, etc. Personally, I would argue the premise of the question serves as little more than a red herring; creating a debate about minor details that distract from the core issues tearing this country apart - corruption, graft, voter apathy & ignorance and the resulting deficits, debt and loss of our liberties. But I digress..... Interesting that the argument above incorporates high side death statistics throughout the nine year Iraq war that "Obama ended" and numbers lower than estimates of Afghan civilians killed, in the first three years alone, as a result of the Afghanastan war alone (excluding civilians killed in Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, etc.) which Obama has dramatically escalated during his time in office (exactly as McCain or Romney would have done in his place). Those intellectual inconsistencies aside, the Iraq war did end during his first term, on or about December 2011, approximately 35 months into his presidency and nine years after it (the war) began. I'm not sure war for the sake of war McCain (or even Cheyney for that matter) could/would have drug it out any longer (it had served its purpose & lost public support), but if you see that as the fulfillment of a campaign promise - let's give him ONE. And if we count universal healthcare - let's give him ONE & ONE QUARTER. Obviously my statement of ZERO was an exageration meant to be illistrurate a point - his campaign was, for the most part, an exercise in "Bait and Switch" - think deficits, which he promised to cut, but instead has increased each year in office (like Bush before him) resulting in more than doubling our national debt since he became President. If we were to illustrate the relative danger to our country of Al Queda vs National Debt using threats posed to a camper surrounded by two representatives from the animal kingdom, the former would be represented by a swarm of gnats, the latter by a pride of lions. And what is the solution offered by both wings of "The Party" to protect the campsite, fight the gnats by bringing in more lions whose feces attract more gnats than their "swishing tails" kill!! The debt is a bigger threat to America than the bombs are to Al Queda. The debt threatens to bring our great country to its knees while the bombs it buys make Al Queda stronger. The last point is the scariest irony of all - the war (particularly civilian casualties) is the most powerful Al Queda recruiting tool of all.....sigh. And so, we are on a path to perpetual threat of attack, fear, war, domestic surveilance, eroding personal liberties (including 2A) and ever higher national debt. It is a snowball that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. BinLaden's goal was to bring our country down by using terrorism to create fear to disrupt our economy bringing about Roman style economic collapse. Not sure our economic collapse is playing out exactly as he anticipated, but it is playing out none the less - we now have $17,000,000,000,000 Debt largely attributable to the effects of his attack and, ironically, our response to it. [/QUOTE]
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