My moon child sister in law

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CoolShi7Designer

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Yeah can I get that in hillbilly English please? Lol jk jk. I understood about half of what you're saying.
quantum particles dont behave according to classical physics. they are fundamentally weird and do things that seem like magic at the macro scale. They can disappear and reappear on the other side of a solid object, they can be in multiple places at once and behave like a wave and a particle. The claim in pseudo-science is that ideas like in "the secret" or "what the bleep do we know about it" are real. that thinking with intention can have an effect on the physical reality around you. the test they show in "what the bleep..." was thinking good thoughts vs bad thoughts at water bottles while they freeze leads to differences in the crystal structures of the ice formed. This experiment has been repeated multiple times with scientists instead shwamalama ding-dongs selling mysticism and there are no repeatable results.
does thinking affect the physical universe? your brain fires using electrical signals, and numerous quantum interactions are happening every second in your brain, *but the quantum nature of individual particles does not extend to distances on our size scale* quantum weirdness becomes inconsequential because of the quadrillions of interactions any particle would have in any intervening space. anything weird, any aberrant fluctuation, any "intention" given to the particle would be completely lost within those intervening interactions over *any* distance except in very controlled environments like where they study quantum computing and superconducting.
What about thought "waves" that can influence many particles?
quantum particles are weird but still have rules. any form of interactable matter is made of sets of quarks (usually a group of 3) that form leptons. leptons are the stuff you learned about in school, protons and neutrons, the fundamental building blocks of matter. Electrons are fundamental and cant be divided. The point is, to affect a single atom of hydrogen, you must A) overcome the strong force (which is damn near impossible) or B) have a "thought wave" interact with the universal quantum electric field. The thought wave would have to affect all particles (3 quarks and an electron per hydrogen atom) in a meaningful way that overcomes all other status quo interactions, the thought wave would have to *not interact* with anyone else's thought waves so the signal was coherent, and the thought wave must be powerful enough to affect 6.02x10^23 hydrogen atoms to influence a single gram of the lightest possible atoms. With all that in mind, the idea of thinking at a water bottle and affecting the uncountable number of particles involved in a water bottle full of forming ice is insane. if we had the power to do that, then physics wouldn't be reproducible and the universe would be full of crazy **** not acting according to the laws of physics because people thought about "what if there was a star made of frogs?" half a million light years away.
imagine shooting a wave of cueballs at an ocean of pool balls and expecting something meaningful to happen because you did.
weird /= mystical.
beware of guru's and anyone explaining how stuff happens based on "science doesn't know, therefore, magic" especially if they have a book deal.
 

CoolShi7Designer

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Two fleas, one named Dude, were arguing over who owned the dog they inhabited. When the other named quantum theory, shouted him down and said this one dog was all that existed, and he refused to hear anything else!
Except the second flea was the most successful, most precise and most well tested model of the observable universe mankind has ever known, and the other was named dude and didn't understand him. nothing in science precludes a multiverse, heck, it may demand it, but we live on this dog and while we dont know everything about the dog, we know the dog doesnt give 2 flying fks about whether or not the fleas are thinking at him or what their intentions are
 

TedKennedy

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Except the second flea was the most successful, most precise and most well tested model of the observable universe mankind has ever known, and the other was named dude and didn't understand him. nothing in science precludes a multiverse, heck, it may demand it, but we live on this dog and while we dont know everything about the dog, we know the dog doesnt give 2 flying fks about whether or not the fleas are thinking at him or what their intentions are

You left out part of the story. "Dude" didn't understand much, but he was real good at convincing the other fleas that he was a messenger from a creator that knew the origins of the dog. Pretty soon he was getting gifts and teaching many fleas the origins of dog, and the rules by which the dog (giver of life) expected them to live. Made things easy for dude, and in short order he was breeding young nymphs as well as old female fleas, because (as he explained it) - it was their dogly duty to render some first-class flea flesh to the messenger of dog.
 

Chuckie

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quantum particles dont behave according to classical physics. they are fundamentally weird and do things that seem like magic at the macro scale. They can disappear and reappear on the other side of a solid object, they can be in multiple places at once and behave like a wave and a particle. The claim in pseudo-science is that ideas like in "the secret" or "what the bleep do we know about it" are real. that thinking with intention can have an effect on the physical reality around you. the test they show in "what the bleep..." was thinking good thoughts vs bad thoughts at water bottles while they freeze leads to differences in the crystal structures of the ice formed. This experiment has been repeated multiple times with scientists instead shwamalama ding-dongs selling mysticism and there are no repeatable results.
does thinking affect the physical universe? your brain fires using electrical signals, and numerous quantum interactions are happening every second in your brain, *but the quantum nature of individual particles does not extend to distances on our size scale* quantum weirdness becomes inconsequential because of the quadrillions of interactions any particle would have in any intervening space. anything weird, any aberrant fluctuation, any "intention" given to the particle would be completely lost within those intervening interactions over *any* distance except in very controlled environments like where they study quantum computing and superconducting.
What about thought "waves" that can influence many particles?
quantum particles are weird but still have rules. any form of interactable matter is made of sets of quarks (usually a group of 3) that form leptons. leptons are the stuff you learned about in school, protons and neutrons, the fundamental building blocks of matter. Electrons are fundamental and cant be divided. The point is, to affect a single atom of hydrogen, you must A) overcome the strong force (which is damn near impossible) or B) have a "thought wave" interact with the universal quantum electric field. The thought wave would have to affect all particles (3 quarks and an electron per hydrogen atom) in a meaningful way that overcomes all other status quo interactions, the thought wave would have to *not interact* with anyone else's thought waves so the signal was coherent, and the thought wave must be powerful enough to affect 6.02x10^23 hydrogen atoms to influence a single gram of the lightest possible atoms. With all that in mind, the idea of thinking at a water bottle and affecting the uncountable number of particles involved in a water bottle full of forming ice is insane. if we had the power to do that, then physics wouldn't be reproducible and the universe would be full of crazy **** not acting according to the laws of physics because people thought about "what if there was a star made of frogs?" half a million light years away.
imagine shooting a wave of cueballs at an ocean of pool balls and expecting something meaningful to happen because you did.
weird /= mystical.
beware of guru's and anyone explaining how stuff happens based on "science doesn't know, therefore, magic" especially if they have a book deal.
" . . . they are fundamentally weird and do things that seem like magic"
"They can disappear and reappear on the other side of a solid object, they can be in multiple places at once"

Uh, are we talking Quantum Physics here, or the OHP?
 

RickN

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All we know of "real science" says we do not know enough. Frankly guys there is no such thing as settled science, nor will there ever be. The more we learn pushes the boundaries out further and further. This discussion reminds me of some people calling other science deniers for not believing in man made climate change, while also claiming there are more than two genders.

I may not believe in rocks myself, but I have seen enough to know there is more to this world than most people believe.
 

TerryMiller

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I'm retired, ergo "too lazy to multi-quote". (Haven't quite figured out how to work that quote-thing anyway 🙁)

As for the multi-quote thing, I'm bummed that when I want to do so, there is no way to get the "earlier" quote to show before the "latter" quote to keep things in order and perspective. The new software upgrade messed that up totally.

As for retired, I am as well (sort of), but because of taking a "Summer work gig" for the last three Summers, I guess I'm maybe NOT retired. However, in all honesty, when a company will pay me a daily wage, pay me per diem, pay my hotel bills, and pay all expenses on the work van, I figure I'm just being paid to drive around seeing new country. (Alabama at present, although now taking a Covid quarantine period from that "sightseeing.")
 

CoolShi7Designer

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All we know of "real science" says we do not know enough. Frankly guys there is no such thing as settled science, nor will there ever be. The more we learn pushes the boundaries out further and further. This discussion reminds me of some people calling other science deniers for not believing in man made climate change, while also claiming there are more than two genders.

I may not believe in rocks myself, but I have seen enough to know there is more to this world than most people believe.
If there is no such thing as settled science, how does your house have electricity? Is the jury still out on V=IR? How does the motor in your car work? are we still debating PV=nRT? How do levers and pulleys and screws and ramps and wedges and wheels work? are they still testing?
your comment should be "all i know of real science says i do not know enough". looking at the edge of the map and saying "here be dragons" doesn't make the rest of the map unknown or unknowable.
If you want to get into epistemology and the conceptual framework of "knowing" something, Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Descartes, Aquinas, Leibniz, Newton and Kant are good reads.
 

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