Need help with 9mm OAL

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thor447

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Hey guys,

While on my new journey loading pistol rounds, I've come into something I'd like an opinion on from OSA before I move forward. I've got two different brands of bullets as part of my first foray into loading 9mm. I loaded up 50 rounds last night of Xtreme - 124gr - RN Copper plated bullets - .355 dia. Everything went really well. I found some load data and OAL data that I began with. I did the plunk test and everything was groovy with those rounds.

Tonight, I decided I'd give the NB Reloading bullets a shot. These are powdercoated lead RN 124g bullets - .356 dia. The profile of these RN's is a little wider than the Xtreme rounds, and the ogive is closer to the tip of the NB's than it is on the Xtreme's. I loaded the Xtremes to an OAL of 1.125", which was in line with the manual's data and passed the plunk & twist tests with flying colors on my glocks and CZ's. While loading a dummy round tonight of the NB, I was hitting the lands until I reached a OAL of 1.085". This is a pretty big jump (I feel), and it seriously makes me unsettled just giving it the eye test. Obviously, the deeper the bullet is seated, the smaller the interior space is inside the brass, and the same powder load will generate greater pressures with less interior space. My question is, what is a good rule of thumb when determining safe OAL's and power charges when trying out a new round? How do you know how much to lower a powder charge when seating a bullet deeper. How deep is too deep in a 9mm (or any pistol round for that matter)?

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

FYI - I thought about adding some extra taper crimp, but right now, I've only got it set to remove the flare. I obviously don't want to add so much that it begins to deform the bullet.

Thanks.
 

Glock 40

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I have a couple different flat point 124gr I have used and to pass the plunk test in Glock's one is 1.105 and the other is 1.135 where the 115gr FMJs I loaded are 1.165 and some WWB I just checked are 1.155 where are you in the load data? I always load toward the bottom end on powder. I just want the guns to cycle so I haven't been to concerned with OAL. The Lee book shows 124gr lead at min oal on most powders at 1.050 what powder are you using? Which manual?
 

thor447

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I have the Lee book. It shows some powders with min OAL at 1.142, many at 1.050, and one at 1.169. I'm loading these with Alliant Sport Pistol, which unfortunately isn't in the book.

Well, I was able to find from Alliant's webiste that the min OAL for an Acme 9mm 124 Grain RN-NLG Coated bullet is 1.05. My NG's are super similar to the Acme's. This OAL of 1.08 may be OK. I think I'll load up a few at the min pressures and take them with me this weekend to see how they do.

I am excited though to run some tests on the Xtreme rounds I loaded.
 
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Glock 40

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Newest Alliant manual I could find was 2014 and it didn't show sport pistol. On their website they show some loads for it. The last is this one at 1.05 http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

upload_2020-7-9_22-23-10.png
 

thor447

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Newest Alliant manual I could find was 2014 and it didn't show sport pistol. On their website they show some loads for it. The last is this one at 1.05 http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

View attachment 167896
Thanks. I just saw that myself. I'm curious if 3.9 is their max or min. I'd assume since its the only charge weight listed, that it would be max. Would that be correct?

Sorry for the questions, but I'm intent on not taking any chances with these loads until I get a few fired and can see/measure the results. I went through the same thing on my rifle loads!
 

Mad Professor

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Thanks. I just saw that myself. I'm curious if 3.9 is their max or min. I'd assume since its the only charge weight listed, that it would be max. Would that be correct?

Sorry for the questions, but I'm intent on not taking any chances with these loads until I get a few fired and can see/measure the results. I went through the same thing on my rifle loads!

I’m using a very similar acme bullet as the one listed. It is the 125g though instead of their 124g.

I’ve ran well over 3.9 grain.

From my testing you have to add .1-.2g of powder to be where TiteGroup is using a 124g bullet. I’ve loaded as high as 4.3g with that bullet.
 

Mad Professor

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CZs are known to have issues with fatter ogive bullets. Particularly 147g. Guys shooting production USPSA typically ream/throat the chamber.


Search Brian Enos forums for a bit more info.
 
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chazroh

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CZs are known to have issues with fatter ogive bullets. Particularly 147g. Guys shooting production USPSA typically ream/throat the chamber.


Search Brian Enos forums for a bit more info.
I had a cz for a while, my standard loads that I’ve shot a ton of in my sti, wouldn’t chamber in the cz. They must be short throated.
in my experience, if you shorten them up considerably, just back off the powder and work up.
 

Glock 40

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Thanks. I just saw that myself. I'm curious if 3.9 is their max or min. I'd assume since its the only charge weight listed, that it would be max. Would that be correct?

Sorry for the questions, but I'm intent on not taking any chances with these loads until I get a few fired and can see/measure the results. I went through the same thing on my rifle loads!
Everything I have read suggests that if only a single charge weight is given. It should be considered max per that manufacture. Then you subtract 10% of charge weight for your beginning weight. I would say that manufactures are in most cases giving themselves some cya room on the top end. Also if you look at older manuals from 20-30 years ago. You will see different powders between then and now listed, but also you will see powder charges have decreased over time. Is this because of safety or changes to mix? Probably both I would imagine.
 

Mad Professor

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Hey guys,

While on my new journey loading pistol rounds, I've come into something I'd like an opinion on from OSA before I move forward. I've got two different brands of bullets as part of my first foray into loading 9mm. I loaded up 50 rounds last night of Xtreme - 124gr - RN Copper plated bullets - .355 dia. Everything went really well. I found some load data and OAL data that I began with. I did the plunk test and everything was groovy with those rounds.

Tonight, I decided I'd give the NB Reloading bullets a shot. These are powdercoated lead RN 124g bullets - .356 dia. The profile of these RN's is a little wider than the Xtreme rounds, and the ogive is closer to the tip of the NB's than it is on the Xtreme's. I loaded the Xtremes to an OAL of 1.125", which was in line with the manual's data and passed the plunk & twist tests with flying colors on my glocks and CZ's. While loading a dummy round tonight of the NB, I was hitting the lands until I reached a OAL of 1.085". This is a pretty big jump (I feel), and it seriously makes me unsettled just giving it the eye test. Obviously, the deeper the bullet is seated, the smaller the interior space is inside the brass, and the same powder load will generate greater pressures with less interior space. My question is, what is a good rule of thumb when determining safe OAL's and power charges when trying out a new round? How do you know how much to lower a powder charge when seating a bullet deeper. How deep is too deep in a 9mm (or any pistol round for that matter)?

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

FYI - I thought about adding some extra taper crimp, but right now, I've only got it set to remove the flare. I obviously don't want to add so much that it begins to deform the bullet.

Thanks.

Update on the CZ issue here.

I’ve loaded the same bullet/COL combination for over 3 years. 124g Montana Gold jacketed hollow point loaded to 1.100”. I’ve ran this in many guns and chamber checked it in maybe 10-12 different guns.

In this CZ Shadow 2, it hit the lands. You can see the difference before and after I lengthened the throat with a reamer. Obviously I could have shortened my load, but I didn’t want to do that.

This is the same gun thor447 was having issues with.

IMG_3069.jpg

IMG_3071.jpg
 

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