Need some tutoring...

[Mad Professor]

To compare disciplines,
Steel Challenge I think this is called 5 to go. 10" plates, the far one is about 20 yards. Edit 18 yards. Here is a layout of the stages. https://steelchallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/all_stages_in_one.pdf


USPSA from OKC Gun Club about a year ago. IDPA is similar to USPSA.



Stage from Tri-City Practical Pistol (outlaw)


2 Gun Bowling Pin match from last year at Duncan. The 3 pins on the rifle range were 125 yards. For the pistol they are at 15 yards vs Tin Stars 10 yards.

 

[clintbailey]

Thanks for the videos man, we were just checking out some IDPA and USPSA ones on YouTube too, they do look similar...also found some from OKCGC on there of their steel challenges and USPSA, none of their IDPA though (lots of 3 gun videos too, which I'm honestly not interested in at this point)...looks like the steel shoots are the "simpler" ones that might be good to start with...I do like the sound of the 10" plates, they certainly look smaller than that on these videos LOL

 

[D. Hargrove]

@Mad Professor, ya bringing psychology into the game now. Showing vids, how can ya not get hooked???

 

[clintbailey]

@Mad Professor that combo bowling pin shoot looks fun! Is there a limit on rifle caliber in that event?

 

[Mad Professor]

@Mad Professor that combo bowling pin shoot looks fun! Is there a limit on rifle caliber in that event?

It was fun. I'm not sure if there was a limit. Most shot .223. I was shooting 300BLK there. They did it a few times last year. Pistol and PCC is probably here to stay.

 

[clintbailey]

I was thinking my 277 Wolverine would work well too in a deal like that

 

[dennishoddy]

Just about any caliber would work in rifle. Most use the .223 because it's cheaper to shoot.

 

[ProBusiness]

(If this needs moved, please advise or do so)
Summed up, my wife and I did our first "competitive" shooting yesterday, just a small bowling pin shoot @ Tin Star in Weatherford. We had fun, met some great folks that have been into competition for a while, and got bit by the bug a little. Problem is, I know NOTHING about it! I was in the revolver class and she did the semiauto centerfire class. We were told about lots of shoots in OKC, but we are 2.5 hrs west of there. So here are a few topics I'd like to know more about, if anyone is willing:

1) What would be some good beginner comp's to try out first? And is there any closer than OKC to the western side of the state? I've seen all the acronyms, IDPA, USPSA, etc, but am ignorant on the whole affair

2) My wife has a G17 she would probably use initially, and has brought up wanting a red dot optic on it. What are some decent, economical options for it? And also, any suggestions on trigger upgrades (its totally stock Gen 3)...like an Apex kit, etc?

3) I personally have no double stack handguns, as I enjoy 1911's and revolvers more myself. How do the 1911's do in some of the comps, being a single stack mag? How about red dot options on these? If I do decide on a different gun, what caliber is better for these type shoots, 45 or 9? (On a sidenote, I found a Canik 9mm setup that comes with extended mags, optics mounting plates, etc for a reasonable looking price...good/bad/neutral?)

Thanks in advance for any help an old country boy might get

IMO I do not like the red dot optic on a handgun at first. A handgun has a front and back sight and it takes alignment of both of these when the trigger is pulled to get good accuracy. With a red dot you are only looking at the dot on the paper. 1st, it is only one dot, one thing to align and this is not as good as two. second, the red dot does not teach how to properly shoot a handgun using the front and back sight. so, first i think a shoot should be profecient with the two sights on a handgun, once they are good at this then go to the one dot on the paper. Seeing a lot of both, I have been teaching the concealed carry course since 2009 and beginning handgun since 2007, very few beginners can shoot a red dot real accurate. it does not teach you to keep the sights lined up, the gun, the muzzle aligned with you pull the trigger and the patterns are usually bigger that guns shot with both sights.

 

[Dave70968]

My experience with red dots has been just the opposite of yours; in fact, I had the opportunity to lend my red-dot-equipped Buckmark to some new shooters (new meaning "never held a gun before that morning" in this instance) at the annual law school pistol shoot several years ago; they shot the stage clean. They did so well, in fact, that the "run what you brung" rule was suspended and they were required to re-shoot with irons when they embarrassed a few people with experience and big mouths.

The principle behind the red dot is such that it doesn't need two points of alignment like traditional mechanical sights. The dot is projected not on a flat piece of glass, but a precisely-shaped (hyperbolic, for those interested) lens that accounts for off-center viewing; it's best to have the dot in the center of the aperture (just like a mechanical peep sight), but even viewed off-axis, the dot will be pretty darned close to point-of aim. Additionally, the projection is focused at infinity, eliminating the need to focus on multiple planes (the target, the front sight, the rear sight; yes, I know to focus on the front, but try explaining that to a newcomer).

Just my thoughts, anyway.

 

[dennishoddy]

IMO I do not like the red dot optic on a handgun at first. A handgun has a front and back sight and it takes alignment of both of these when the trigger is pulled to get good accuracy. With a red dot you are only looking at the dot on the paper. 1st, it is only one dot, one thing to align and this is not as good as two. second, the red dot does not teach how to properly shoot a handgun using the front and back sight. so, first i think a shoot should be profecient with the two sights on a handgun, once they are good at this then go to the one dot on the paper. Seeing a lot of both, I have been teaching the concealed carry course since 2009 and beginning handgun since 2007, very few beginners can shoot a red dot real accurate. it does not teach you to keep the sights lined up, the gun, the muzzle aligned with you pull the trigger and the patterns are usually bigger that guns shot with both sights.

My experience with red dots has been just the opposite of yours; in fact, I had the opportunity to lend my red-dot-equipped Buckmark to some new shooters (new meaning "never held a gun before that morning" in this instance) at the annual law school pistol shoot several years ago; they shot the stage clean. They did so well, in fact, that the "run what you brung" rule was suspended and they were required to re-shoot with irons when they embarrassed a few people with experience and big mouths.

The principle behind the red dot is such that it doesn't need two points of alignment like traditional mechanical sights. The dot is projected not on a flat piece of glass, but a precisely-shaped (hyperbolic, for those interested) lens that accounts for off-center viewing; it's best to have the dot in the center of the aperture (just like a mechanical peep sight), but even viewed off-axis, the dot will be pretty darned close to point-of aim. Additionally, the projection is focused at infinity, eliminating the need to focus on multiple planes (the target, the front sight, the rear sight; yes, I know to focus on the front, but try explaining that to a newcomer).

Just my thoughts, anyway.

Gotta go with Dave on this one. Our range puts on an NRA Women on Target program on occasion and I am the Range Safety person on the .22 rimfire pistol stage to observe for my role.
We have NRA certified pistol instructors that take ladies that have never had a firearm in their hands before and teach them proper grip, sight alignment, trigger pull, etc..
Targets at 10 yards and some groups are all over the target. Shot with out of the box Ruger Mark II iron sights.
After they finish, they get to shoot my Mark III Hunter with red dot, muzzle brake, slide assist, and 3 lb trigger competition gun at the same distance. The groups are much smaller in comparison.
The ladies love the red dots.
That being said, the cheap red dots with huge parallax are worthless.
If anyone has never been to a USPSA match and watched the open gun guys with red dots run a stage......you need to do this to see how fast that dot can increase the stage times and accuracy at speed. ( Caveat, I've seen an iron sight guy on this forum out run some optics guys)
My next match will be a transition from limited division USPSA to Carry Optics division using a Trijicon RMR. Just got it mounted and fired a few rounds into the burn barrels for a rough sight in.
Headed to the range tomorrow for holster and draw practice. Totally new game here.