Net Neutrality is dead

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caojyn

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There are several. Some sell stuff, one is a restaurant. The original became defunct in 1874.

Woody
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-10971109

this article makes it sound as though a sliver of the original survived,even though the majority of the company was disbanded.

"A tiny rump of the company lived on, however, consisting of its trading name and a small tea and coffee concern.
This shadow of what was once a global trading power was acquired in 2005 by Indian businessman Sanjiv Mehta, who has turned it into a consumer brand focused on luxury foodstuffs."
 

Hobbes

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So all you people who hate big business go throw your pensions and 401ks and IRAs in the river or donate to charity.
Your demand for them to grow is based on the profits and dividend checks of those "evil" corporations.

Those companies would be happy with what they got if most of America hadn't cut the cord on cable and went to streaming.
Profits are down and pension fund managers are demanding more dividends.
So raise prices and add new charges to the internet.
You realize what you are saying here, right?

An open internet allowed Competition to spring up with new business plans and ideas and the cable companies found it difficult to compete.
They lost large numbers of their customers to business competitors that provided the consumer with more choices.

I always thought more competition resulted in better pricing and servicing for customers as well as a more efficient marketplace.
But then I don't work for a cable company or depend on their pension system for a monthly check either.
 

mugsy

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If that’s truly what you think this is about...you are woefully misinformed on the subject.

As stated, big business is just as bad, if not worse, than big government.

That's flatly untrue - it is true that some businesses both large and small are abusive but no company has the reach, resources, and finality in its actions of government. So while anyone or organization from mom/dad to businesses to Big Bro can be abusive .gov gets the award for the worst potential for abuse.
 

mr ed

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You realize what you are saying here, right?

An open internet allowed Competition to spring up with new business plans and ideas and the cable companies found it difficult to compete.
They lost large numbers of their customers to business competitors that provided the consumer with more choices.

I always thought more competition resulted in better pricing and servicing for customers as well as a more efficient marketplace.
But then I don't work for a cable company or depend on their pension system for a monthly check either.

Theres no competition. your stuck with you local ISP just like you have been for the last 20 years.
While you may be able to get content from different places your still stuck with the few ISPs in your area.

In an ideal world, the internet would be operated like the interstate highway system.
Free from most local regulation and fees.
Free to all who want to travel on it BUT, if you want to go faster take the turnpike.
 

TerryMiller

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That's flatly untrue - it is true that some businesses both large and small are abusive but no company has the reach, resources, and finality in its actions of government. So while anyone or organization from mom/dad to businesses to Big Bro can be abusive .gov gets the award for the worst potential for abuse.

Yeppers...and big government can put one in jail. Ask Scooter Libby, Martha Stewart and a few others what the penalty is for just telling a lie.
 

Hobbes

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Theres no competition. your stuck with you local ISP just like you have been for the last 20 years.
While you may be able to get content from different places your still stuck with the few ISPs in your area.

In an ideal world, the internet would be operated like the interstate highway system.
Free from most local regulation and fees.
Free to all who want to travel on it BUT, if you want to go faster take the turnpike.

There is certainly competition for TV. Service.
If you dont like bloated TV packages your cable company offers you can opt for Sling, PS Vue, DirectvNow, YT, Netflix....

If you dont want pay $35 a month for a landline you can buy a VOIP box and pat $5.23 a month. That's what I do.

I get that the ISPs profit margins are eroded by competition.
That's true of most companies.

My guess is Cox will eventually throttle or block those services demanding a fee that will be passed on to me.
Cox feels Entitled to that profit apparently.
 

mr ed

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There is certainly competition for TV. Service.
If you dont like bloated TV packages your cable company offers you can opt for Sling, PS Vue, DirectvNow, YT, Netflix....

If you dont want pay $35 a month for a landline you can buy a VOIP box and pat $5.23 a month. That's what I do.

I get that the ISPs profit margins are eroded by competition.
That's true of most companies.

My guess is Cox will eventually throttle or block those services demanding a fee that will be passed on to me.
Cox feels Entitled to that profit apparently.

ISPs deliver the internet which there is no competition. ATT ,Cox,Dish and Direct tv are about your only choices in the Tulsa area.
They will all be going up since theres no competition.
Thats what I was talking about the Internet being like the highway system.
Instead of there being only a cox or Att cable, it would be public with a tax collected to maintain it like the motor fuel tax for the highway system.
Then it would truly be open and free and it would open up to a thousand new ISPs.
Your choices then would be limitless and prices would drop.
But as long as Cox and Att own the cables it will never happen.
 

Hobbes

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ISPs deliver the internet which there is no competition. ATT ,Cox,Dish and Direct tv are about your only choices in the Tulsa area.
They will all be going up since theres no competition.
Thats what I was talking about the Internet being like the highway system.
Instead of there being only a cox or Att cable, it would be public with a tax collected to maintain it like the motor fuel tax for the highway system.
Then it would truly be open and free and it would open up to a thousand new ISPs.
Your choices then would be limitless and prices would drop.
But as long as Cox and Att own the cables it will never happen.


Some cities have decided to build their own ISP and after some of them were successful the large ISPs lobbied the state legislatures to make it illegal for a municipality to create their own provider service.
VA and KS come to mind.

And then there's this
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...ith-fiberbut-telecom-lobbying-keeps-it-unused
 

Dave70968

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ISPs deliver the internet which there is no competition. ATT ,Cox,Dish and Direct tv are about your only choices in the Tulsa area.
They will all be going up since theres no competition.
Thats what I was talking about the Internet being like the highway system.
Instead of there being only a cox or Att cable, it would be public with a tax collected to maintain it like the motor fuel tax for the highway system.
Then it would truly be open and free and it would open up to a thousand new ISPs.
Your choices then would be limitless and prices would drop.
But as long as Cox and Att own the cables it will never happen.
Just like if SWBell and OG&E own the cables, there will never be another power company or phone company?

What? There's precedent for one company owning the infrastructure, but letting other (competing) companies use it so long as they pay an appropriate amount to the infrastructure owner for its use? No way!

I agree that state-granted monopolies (the only monopolies with any staying power) are a bad idea; the solution is to either de-monopolize; a workaround is to make those franchise grants conditional. Giving companies freedom to do as they will while simultaneously shielding them from competition is a disaster in the making.
 

Hobbes

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ISPs deliver the internet which there is no competition. ATT ,Cox,Dish and Direct tv are about your only choices in the Tulsa area.
They will all be going up since theres no competition.
Thats what I was talking about the Internet being like the highway system.
Instead of there being only a cox or Att cable, it would be public with a tax collected to maintain it like the motor fuel tax for the highway system.
Then it would truly be open and free and it would open up to a thousand new ISPs.
Your choices then would be limitless and prices would drop.
But as long as Cox and Att own the cables it will never happen.

Here is the OSI model....

Osi-model-jb.svg-57f7b9af3df78c690f6305e8.png


When you are talking about the ISPs you are talking about the lower layers primariily and yes there is lack of competition there.

NN relates to the upper layers where the protocols run and there is a great deal of competition there.
The reason is because NN made it illegal for the ISP to tamper with or impede the protocols running on those top tiers.

It's 2 different things.
 

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