OC'er Confronted By Arbys Manager

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Stephen Cue

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Jeff''s (Cue) meaning of "pompous" open carry falls more to ostentatious carry. Carrying open for the sake of people seeing it and supposedly being deterred from "messing" with the carrier.

His pompous statement was more rhetorical and not a direct label of the OP's actions. When the manager of the Arby's made the store's wishes verbally to the OP, the OP did not conceal it from view. The restaurant DOES NOT need a permanent sign posting the policy. All they have to do is verbally notify.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, this is based on what the OP stated. I am a top level 2nd amendment lover, but private property owner's rights, whether open to the public or not, SHOULD NEVER, trump a trespasser's or would-be trespasser's 2nd amendment rights.

Not saying the OP tresspassed, but he has no right to continue doing something on private property if the owner asks him to cease.

As for the asking a flamming homosexual to cease ostentatious gay behavior, that is any business owner's right. Just as the owner can ask a young couple french kissing to quit or leave.

I agree that its not worth a possible tresspassing charge or more or even causing agnostic gun owners to think gun owners are rowdy, over a $20 meal.

Conceal it and carry on or pick another place to eat. Paying for a meal does not give a person the right to violate a business' policy.

I will say this, the Arby's needs to get their **** together as to not waste our time and money if their emotions cant handle the sight of a firearm.
 

Traxxis

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http://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html

Verbal notification is sufficient. There does not appear to be any provisions specifying when the business must tell you they do not welcome open carry, but IMO, once they inform you that they prohibit it, you are then required to abide by their request. Should you chose to leave your food uneaten, or bag it up and take it with you, you were legally asked to leave.

Remember, the Bill of Rights exists to protect US from the .GOV, not to protect us from ourselves. Therefore, Arby's cannot violate your 2nd amendment rights because they do not apply to a private establishment.

Also, a business has the right to refuse service to anybody so long as it isn't based on RACE, GENDER, RELIGIOUS or SEXUAL PREFERENCE (there might be a couple I'm forgetting... but these are the biggies and they get the point across).

I think it is reasonable that he asked you to conceal it, even though you weren't told this by the first employee to see you... I'm not saying I agree with it, but within the confines of what the state has provided, I think it is reasonable. I also think it is reasonable to discuss it with the manager, but ultimately, the manager is charged with running the establishment (I believe the legal term is "officer", but don't quote me... as this is all opinion), regardless of whether or not the actual owner is present.

Again, all of this is opinion, and it's worth what you pay for it. I wish you the best, but I feel this is a losing battle with anybody outside of a firearm forum. :/
 

Traxxis

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Also, as far as the $20 goes... I see it like this....

You pay them $20 for them to make you and your family a sandwich... once they make good on this deal, they aren't obligated to provide you with a place to eat it (again, provided they aren't discriminating against you based on the established 'thou shalt not' elements). Now, had you paid an extra amount of money to secure a table to eat the food, the situation could be different, but you pay the same amount whether you decide to eat in the establishment, or run through the drive through.

Shortened, the $20 was the agreed upon price for the meal itself, not for the meal AND a place to eat.

Again, JMO.
 

Danny Tanner

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I agree with both Cues, the Cues, Cue[SUP]2[/SUP], but only if the OP was confronted as soon as he entered the store.

If the management is that strong about no open carry, then why wasn't the staff trained to deal with such an event? Once the food was ordered, money exchanged, and product delivered, I see that as an [potentially] unofficial agreement. If the management wants to retract that agreement after it's been established, then please retract the OP's money from the register so that he can be on his way.
 

SMS

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I agree with both Cues, the Cues, Cue[SUP]2[/SUP], but only if the OP was confronted as soon as he entered the store.

If the management is that strong about no open carry, then why wasn't the staff trained to deal with such an event? Once the food was ordered, money exchanged, and product delivered, I see that as an [potentially] unofficial agreement. If the management wants to retract that agreement after it's been established, then please retract the OP's money from the register so that he can be on his way.

+1. It's not like OC passage has been a secret. Post your property...don't wait for me to come in, be served, and sit down to eat before ambushing me with your "beliefs".
 

hrdware

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Every Arby's I have been into while OC has been fine with it. I believe this to be a case of a manager not knowing what the corporate policy was, especially if he came out flipping through the policy and procedure manual.

At no time was the OP asked to leave the establishment. He was asked if he would put the gun in his car, and he politely declined. This is not the same as being asked to leave.
 

Glocktogo

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Also, as far as the $20 goes... I see it like this....

You pay them $20 for them to make you and your family a sandwich... once they make good on this deal, they aren't obligated to provide you with a place to eat it (again, provided they aren't discriminating against you based on the established 'thou shalt not' elements). Now, had you paid an extra amount of money to secure a table to eat the food, the situation could be different, but you pay the same amount whether you decide to eat in the establishment, or run through the drive through.

Shortened, the $20 was the agreed upon price for the meal itself, not for the meal AND a place to eat.

Again, JMO.

If that's the case, then why do they ask you if its for dine-in, or carry out? IMO, there is a verbal agreement when you tell them its dine-in and then pay. If they want to kick me out, fine, but I'm leaving THEIR food and taking MY money. :)
 

SoonerDVM

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There are still a lot of people uncomfortable about guns, and who are made uncomfortable just by their presence. Clearly this manager was one of them.

I think the OP handled it well.

I don't think making a huge stink out of it would have helped anything. The manager was unfamiliar with whether there was a policy regarding weapons, spent some time trying to find if there was a policy, never asked the OP to leave even when the OP declined to leave his weapon in his car.

You can make a huge issue with people surprised by OC - and reaffirm their negative stereotypes of guns and gun owners - or you can be polite about it, state in a non-emotional way that you are exercising your rights, and maybe leave the people in question some things to think about - possibly even changing some minds in the process.
 

FamousAJ

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You won the discussion WAGS by stating your opinion in a courteous and professional manner. Both you and the manager were calm, cool and collected and approached this subject in an insightful, and cautious way. Well done! You clearly won this one.

You consider it a win when he understands your position?? and a loss when the person doesn't?? It's not my fault he's ignorant or in Mensa, all I can do is explain 2a rights.

There is no winning or losing people. Keeping people informed and knowledgable is all we can do. IMO
not ranting...just sayin'
 

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