Open Carry

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Should Open Carry be permissible under the law?


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rcnich

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you have to go through the CLEET training because you chose a profession in which you are required to carry a weapon to protect not only yourself, but the common citizens as well.

The way I see it bag5, your gun will kill somebody just as dead as mine will. You're making the choice to carry - open or concealed - and have the right to not only protect yourself, but also the responsibility to protect me and my family from your errant gunfire should you decide to use your 2nd Amendment rights.

Our Bill of Rights says everyone has the freedom of speech. But our laws also say that slander is a crime -- so there are reasonable limits on our freedoms.

To assert that the Bill of Rights gives you absolute and unchecked individual rights is just ignorant.

Seems like some folks want all of the freedom, but none of the responsibility.
 

owu1bag5

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The way I see it bag5, your gun will kill somebody just as dead as mine will. You're making the choice to carry - open or concealed - and have the right to not only protect yourself, but also the responsibility to protect me and my family from your errant gunfire should you decide to use your 2nd Amendment rights.

Our Bill of Rights says everyone has the freedom of speech. But our laws also say that slander is a crime -- so there are reasonable limits on our freedoms.

To assert that the Bill of Rights gives you absolute and unchecked individual rights is just ignorant.

Seems like some folks want all of the freedom, but none of the responsibility.

the way i see it nich, is that it is a personal responsibility to see to it that i use my weapon in a safe and legal manner and get the proper training and practice necessary, not yours, not the police, not the government's. if i so choose to use my weapon in an unsafe manner there are laws in place to handle that.

and you see it as folks want freedom without responsibility, i want both freedom and responsibility. maybe we should have a license to use free speech, a license to get a speedy trial, a license for freedom of religion, a license to insure that you have the right to only lawful search and seizure, and we should definitely require at least 32 hours of training in each before you can get said license, and if you do not wish to get one of these licenses well the .gov is very sorry but you do not have access to a right for which you have not filed the proper paperwork.

to assert that the Bill of Rights does not give you absolute individual rights is just ignorant.

if we pick and choose which of the bill of rights is absolute, we are sure to lose them all.
 

skyydiver

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I'm a little surprised that you'd want "equal protection" from those seeking to change statute so we can obey the law rather than from those who will ignore the law regardless...like bad guys.
 

rcnich

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I'm a little surprised that you'd want "equal protection" from those seeking to change statute so we can obey the law rather than from those who will ignore the law regardless...like bad guys.

Well, diver, that was a bit of sarcasm. But we all know bad guys ignore the law -- so all of us have to live with that constant level of danger and criminality.

I just think it's not unreasonable that there be some standard of proficiency required if you want to carry a gun - especially open carry.

Is being able to hit what you aim at, and avoiding having your gun taken from you too high of a standard?
 

rcnich

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FYI...

According to FBI stats, in 2007 there were 57 police officers killed by firearms - two with their own handguns.

There were 15,479 police officer assaults with injury during that year.

That comes out to 4 officers killed every month, and 1,280 assaulted every month.

All these officers carried guns, had weapons training and handgun retention training. Some of these officers were pretty bad-ass fellas.

And yet, despite their training and guns, these officers were assaulted, injured and killed. The bad guys didn't give a damn that the officer had a gun.
They didn't give a damn more than 15,000 times.

So those who think open carry is some magical deterrent to ward off bad guys, you may want to reconsider.

Read or re-read Michael Brown's "Is Your Gun a Weapon or a Talisman?" in this forum.

Protecting your 2A rights is not the same as protecting your life. Getting the two confused will have bad consequences.
 

owu1bag5

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again, an officer gets into a line of work where he/she knows that their life is in danger everyday. officers get into situations where the average citizen should never be. now you find me some stats from open carry states showing me an average citizen being shot first, having his gun taken away, or otherwise being targeted by the bad guys.
 

rcnich

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find me some stats from open carry states showing me an average citizen being shot first, having his gun taken away, or otherwise being targeted by the bad guys

Really? I think a cursory look at the Daily Oklahoman or Tulsa World would provide you enough info on "an average citizen being shot first, having his gun taken away, or otherwise being targeted by the bad guys."

The average citizen's odds of being violently assaulted are around 1 in 100,000. Pretty long odds, don't you agree?

The point to consider is NOT your LIKELIHOOD of being assaulted, because you've already decided you will not be a victim, no matter how unlikely.

The point is whether that unlikely assault will be any less violent than one against a police officer. (I doubt it.) Will the average citizen who carries a gun be adequately prepared?
 

owu1bag5

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you missed my question i think. find me stats where an average citizen who open carries in a state where open carry is legal that shows that because they carry a gun they were victimized by criminals.
 

RedTape

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FYI...

According to FBI stats, in 2007 there were 57 police officers killed by firearms - two with their own handguns.

There were 15,479 police officer assaults with injury during that year.

That comes out to 4 officers killed every month, and 1,280 assaulted every month.

All these officers carried guns, had weapons training and handgun retention training. Some of these officers were pretty bad-ass fellas.

And yet, despite their training and guns, these officers were assaulted, injured and killed. The bad guys didn't give a damn that the officer had a gun.
They didn't give a damn more than 15,000 times.

So those who think open carry is some magical deterrent to ward off bad guys, you may want to reconsider.

Read or re-read Michael Brown's "Is Your Gun a Weapon or a Talisman?" in this forum.

Protecting your 2A rights is not the same as protecting your life. Getting the two confused will have bad consequences.

You can't compare police with the average person. They respond to violent situations everyday, of course they are going to get into fights, be assaulted, etc. When emotions are high, people are fighting or under the influence of drugs/alcohol they have no problem resisting. The police have to deal with them, a regular citizen does not.

I completely support open carry because I think its a right we have. I would rarely open carry, but it would be nice to throw a jacket on over my pistol without worrying too much about it being perfectly concealed in all situations.

As far as open carry being a deterrent or an open invitation to be attacked, it really depends upon the aggressor. Some will see the firearm and leave, others might simply use more caution or approach you from a blind spot. It all depends on each individual situation. Either way I would like to have the choice.
 

rcnich

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I

I didn't say they were victimized BECAUSE they carried a gun.

My point is that the gun provides less deterrence than most folks think. Therefore, the belief that open carry would provide significant crime suppression is probably overrated.
 

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