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Self Defense & Handgun Carry
Places that are off limits for CCW?
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<blockquote data-quote="IDtheTarget" data-source="post: 90817" data-attributes="member: 280"><p>Okay, it's been bugging me about what (if any) the penalties are for knowingly walking into an establishment that is posted as a no-carry zone, and there have been a lot of different opinions posted here on this subject. So, I spoke with a lawyer who's intimately familiar with this law. He prefers that I not use his or our agency's name since it's not our job to make or interpret the law. He agrees with Buzz about it being the AG's role to write a definitive opinion, but notes two things: </p><p>(1) He doubts the AG will do so, in order to leave the DA's the flexibility to charge on a case-by-case basis, and</p><p></p><p>(2) It won't <strong>really</strong> be decided until a court tries the case and applicable case law is established.</p><p></p><p>That being the case, the gentleman with whom I spoke disagrees with the CLEET staff attorney. I detailed the reasoning as best I could below:</p><p></p><p>Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): It's a misdemeanor, and you lose your SDA license for 6 months plus fine and possibly jail time.</p><p></p><p>First of all, if there were no law on the subject, anybody could carry a concealed handgun anywhere they want. However, there <strong>is</strong> a law making concealed carry illegal, <a href="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1272.html" target="_blank">Title 21 Section 1272</a>. Until it was ammended to allow carry for SDA holders, nobody but LEOs and licensed PIs were allowed concealed carry. Now it reads that it is:</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, unless you are carrying under the auspices of the SDA, the average person can't carry concealed.</p><p></p><p>Now, <a href="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.4.html" target="_blank">Title 21 Section 1290.4</a> states:</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, if you are carrying in a way that is contrary to the SDA, you are not protected by the SDA, and therefore fall under Section 1272. Now, <a href="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.22.html" target="_blank">Title 21 Section 1290.22A</a> states that a business owner (or any other property owner) can disallow weapons on his or her property. If said owner disallows weapons, then anybody carrying on his/her property is not protected by the SDA, and are therefore violating Title 21 Section 1272.</p><p></p><p>Now, the penalties for violating sections 1272 and 1273 are spelled out in <a href="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1276.html" target="_blank">Title 21 Section 1276</a>:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Notice that the SDA is specifically mentioned in the revised Section 1276. I personally believe that this was not an accident, it was intentional so that people would know that it applies in this specific case.</p><p></p><p>So, if you are caught in a store/establishment that has a "no guns" sign posted, you can be fined, jailed, have your SDA suspended for six months, and have a misdemeanor on your record. Notice that there's nothing in the law that says that the owner has to ask you to leave, first.</p><p></p><p>I haven't tried to talk with the OKC DA, this guy's opinion is good for me. If anybody else feels the need to ask whoever the DA is a week from Wednesday, then let us know what <strong>he</strong> says. But I'm willing to bet a nice lunch that he says basically the same thing, if he voices an opinion at all.</p><p></p><p>Hope this helps!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IDtheTarget, post: 90817, member: 280"] Okay, it's been bugging me about what (if any) the penalties are for knowingly walking into an establishment that is posted as a no-carry zone, and there have been a lot of different opinions posted here on this subject. So, I spoke with a lawyer who's intimately familiar with this law. He prefers that I not use his or our agency's name since it's not our job to make or interpret the law. He agrees with Buzz about it being the AG's role to write a definitive opinion, but notes two things: (1) He doubts the AG will do so, in order to leave the DA's the flexibility to charge on a case-by-case basis, and (2) It won't [b]really[/b] be decided until a court tries the case and applicable case law is established. That being the case, the gentleman with whom I spoke disagrees with the CLEET staff attorney. I detailed the reasoning as best I could below: Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): It's a misdemeanor, and you lose your SDA license for 6 months plus fine and possibly jail time. First of all, if there were no law on the subject, anybody could carry a concealed handgun anywhere they want. However, there [b]is[/b] a law making concealed carry illegal, [URL="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1272.html"]Title 21 Section 1272[/URL]. Until it was ammended to allow carry for SDA holders, nobody but LEOs and licensed PIs were allowed concealed carry. Now it reads that it is: So, unless you are carrying under the auspices of the SDA, the average person can't carry concealed. Now, [URL="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.4.html"]Title 21 Section 1290.4[/URL] states: So, if you are carrying in a way that is contrary to the SDA, you are not protected by the SDA, and therefore fall under Section 1272. Now, [URL="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1290.22.html"]Title 21 Section 1290.22A[/URL] states that a business owner (or any other property owner) can disallow weapons on his or her property. If said owner disallows weapons, then anybody carrying on his/her property is not protected by the SDA, and are therefore violating Title 21 Section 1272. Now, the penalties for violating sections 1272 and 1273 are spelled out in [URL="http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1276.html"]Title 21 Section 1276[/URL]: Notice that the SDA is specifically mentioned in the revised Section 1276. I personally believe that this was not an accident, it was intentional so that people would know that it applies in this specific case. So, if you are caught in a store/establishment that has a "no guns" sign posted, you can be fined, jailed, have your SDA suspended for six months, and have a misdemeanor on your record. Notice that there's nothing in the law that says that the owner has to ask you to leave, first. I haven't tried to talk with the OKC DA, this guy's opinion is good for me. If anybody else feels the need to ask whoever the DA is a week from Wednesday, then let us know what [b]he[/b] says. But I'm willing to bet a nice lunch that he says basically the same thing, if he voices an opinion at all. Hope this helps! [/QUOTE]
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