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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Question about ar15 trigger and springs..
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<blockquote data-quote="Glocktogo" data-source="post: 2209998" data-attributes="member: 1132"><p>Man I hate to disagree with you, but I take some issue with that assertion. The mil-spec AR trigger was designed and intended to be bomb proof and provide a significant level of inherent safety for what is sadly, a poorly trained recruit headed for Vietnam. Precision marksmanship for the entire military was not feasible and they were downsizing the service round to carry a LOT more. The hit ratio in Vietnam was appalling. A mil-spec AR trigger will run somewhere between 7-12 pounds on a 7.5 pound rifle. It's quite possible to get amazing accuracy with a stock AR trigger, but it takes more time than most shooters are willing to spend breaking each shot. Frankly, most AR shooters rarely shoot past 25 yards, which requires almost no marksmanship skills. At 25 yards, those holes in the target should be covered with a dime. Most are covering a pie plate, liberally.</p><p></p><p>Sadly, at nearly .75-1.00 per round, $200 doesn't buy you very much marksmanship training. I doubt even an excellent shooting coach could instill marksmanship in the average shooter in just 250 rounds. IIRC, the full Appleseed course is about 500 rounds. Look at a quality trigger as a percentage of group size. Uneven pressure applied at the trigger and lock time of the ignition system will increase group size at 100 yards by a percentage of the platform's mechanical accuracy. That percentage is going to be increased or decreased by a factor time and inch pounds. David Tubb has sold a metric ton of adjustable triggers and ignition upgrades as a result. </p><p></p><p>For a practical shooter like me, the factor is less about MOA and more about time. I can win a match by applying a mixture of speed and accuracy. How much speed and how much accuracy is dependent on stage design and range to target, along with penalties and points. What I can't do is miss fast enough to win. A better trigger allows me to get acceptable hits faster. I can hit a 300 yard gong with a Mosin Ngant, but you'd better get the sun dial out to time it. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>FWIW, I think the best bang for the buck is a .22LR conversion and a few bricks of ammo. Past that, a quality trigger does a lot for most shooters. JMO, YMMV</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glocktogo, post: 2209998, member: 1132"] Man I hate to disagree with you, but I take some issue with that assertion. The mil-spec AR trigger was designed and intended to be bomb proof and provide a significant level of inherent safety for what is sadly, a poorly trained recruit headed for Vietnam. Precision marksmanship for the entire military was not feasible and they were downsizing the service round to carry a LOT more. The hit ratio in Vietnam was appalling. A mil-spec AR trigger will run somewhere between 7-12 pounds on a 7.5 pound rifle. It's quite possible to get amazing accuracy with a stock AR trigger, but it takes more time than most shooters are willing to spend breaking each shot. Frankly, most AR shooters rarely shoot past 25 yards, which requires almost no marksmanship skills. At 25 yards, those holes in the target should be covered with a dime. Most are covering a pie plate, liberally. Sadly, at nearly .75-1.00 per round, $200 doesn't buy you very much marksmanship training. I doubt even an excellent shooting coach could instill marksmanship in the average shooter in just 250 rounds. IIRC, the full Appleseed course is about 500 rounds. Look at a quality trigger as a percentage of group size. Uneven pressure applied at the trigger and lock time of the ignition system will increase group size at 100 yards by a percentage of the platform's mechanical accuracy. That percentage is going to be increased or decreased by a factor time and inch pounds. David Tubb has sold a metric ton of adjustable triggers and ignition upgrades as a result. For a practical shooter like me, the factor is less about MOA and more about time. I can win a match by applying a mixture of speed and accuracy. How much speed and how much accuracy is dependent on stage design and range to target, along with penalties and points. What I can't do is miss fast enough to win. A better trigger allows me to get acceptable hits faster. I can hit a 300 yard gong with a Mosin Ngant, but you'd better get the sun dial out to time it. :) FWIW, I think the best bang for the buck is a .22LR conversion and a few bricks of ammo. Past that, a quality trigger does a lot for most shooters. JMO, YMMV [/QUOTE]
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