Raising gun purchasing age to 21

[Frederick]

Really those points (voting/drinking beer) have nothing to do with each other. Drinking laws aren't addressed by the Constitution and any linking of them is just an emotional red-herring not a logic based argument. I am not saying you shouldn't think it but rather that there is no inherent link beside you deciding there is one.

I have been out of school for many (many) years, bit I recall there was a lot of evidence that suggests the most emotion driven and easily manipulated voting group are under 21s, so I suppose one could conclude extending the right to vote to them was a bad decision or at least fraught with peril. Also, regarding military service, being eligible to serve is not the same as having served. I can see the utility of a tiered system with some age being the base for voting but with actual (not theoretical) military service causing there to be an "early entry" system?

Now as to gun ownership I am ambivalent. Without a doubt, young men in the post-pubescent group (16-19/20) are the ones most prone (or at least most arrested per FBI statistics) to fighting, violent behavior, gang activity, etc. BUT anyone who could be called up for militia duty should be able to "keep and bear arms".

I appreciate your opinion.

I agree there is an element of emotion involved. Any topic involving our rights is bound to be. But I would argue that an 18-20 year old doesn't instantaneously become more responsible the moment he graduates from basic training. It doesn't take much looking to find that indeed, young soldiers/Marines are just as prove to stupidity as the general population. It might be less only by virtue of how tightly controlled their lives are by the institution.

I disagree with the idea that we should create a two tiered system whereby those who have enlisted in the military have more rights than their peers back home. They enlisted to defend all of our rights, and it strikes me as unfair that veterans should get preferential treatment under the law in this manner.

 

[TerryMiller]

I'm good with that, as a teacher I understand that brain development is not complete at 18.
I was just pointing out that Rights are not absolute, god given, even though I like to think they are, too. Just the fact that we set an age where you get your Rights disproves the absolute argument.
As an old man that works daily with 18 year olds, I am not sure they should be allowed to drive, much less own a gun or vote. We have created a society that prevents most of them from growing up until later in life.
However, at 17 I was a high school graduate and in the Army Reserves. At 18 my wife was still in high school when we got married, no she was not pregnant. At 19 I was on a team that assembled and fired tactical nuclear bombs. At 20, I was a section chief firing a 155mm howitzer.
I went to war with several guy that were 18-21, which were every bit as responsible and brave as I was.
So, I am not sure what the correct age is, but at some point I would lay money that says assault weapons will be the same at pistols.
My wife tells me that I cannot use myself as a yard stick to measure other men against, but I am not sure she is talking about Rights because I am rather impressive.

This is what we have become. I bought my first rifle, a .22 bolt action, when I was pre-teen (10 to 12 years old). But, I had already proven proficiency and being safety conscious. Mom and Dad even let me walk down to the local lumber/hardware store and pick it out. Sadly, many today couldn't prove either proficiency, safety consciousness, or even a relative degree of maturity. Thus, states have found that some rights (or should I say privileges) cannot be granted until one reaches a certain age.

Even then, with the propensity for people to text and drive, even if they are "adults," they don't show it.

 

[mugsy]

I appreciate your opinion.

I agree there is an element of emotion involved. Any topic involving our rights is bound to be. But I would argue that an 18-20 year old doesn't instantaneously become more responsible the moment he graduates from basic training. It doesn't take much looking to find that indeed, young soldiers/Marines are just as prove to stupidity as the general population. It might be less only by virtue of how tightly controlled their lives are by the institution.

I disagree with the idea that we should create a two tiered system whereby those who have enlisted in the military have more rights than their peers back home. They enlisted to defend all of our rights, and it strikes me as unfair that veterans should get preferential treatment under the law in this manner.

BTW I appreciate the civil discourse - we need more of that on almost every topic. I am not advocating for a tiered system just saying I can see the argument. I guess I have to admit here, up front, that I am also not in favor of birth-right citizenship and I don't mean just for immigrants I mean for anyone but the alternatives (universal citizenship tests, military service before citizenship, etc.) have their own bunch of potential problems so its not really a matter of picking the ideal so much as picking the problem set one believe's is less negative.

 

[John6185]

I don't agree that 18 year olds should be considered adults for the simple reason they are not mature enough. An immature 18 year old commits a foolish, childish crime and it means a criminal record that impacts his entire future until death. At one time that would be a juvenile crime or event and the police record would be expunged once the individual reached 21 years of age and was considered an adult.
However, in 1971 both sides of congress voted that an 18 year old could vote and changed the Constitution as such due to the anti-Vietnam demonstrations across the nation. Now we have problem, many are heavily influenced by liberal and often communist professors in our universities and they are demonstrating again and yes, voting.
However, consider this: At just 19 years old, Audie Murphy had already won two Silver Stars and the Distinguished Service Cross, and he was leading men into battle. He was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor at the age of 20.. The military makes a difference in the training and making of men. It is said that if something is worth fighting for it is worth keeping and if something is earned it is valued. A lot of young people haven't earned freedom, they take it and extract what they want from it and then want to change it for the rest of us. Perhaps we need to reenact the draft to give al youth a sense of direction, respect for others and appreciate the freedoms we have in this nation. I have the feeling that many don't appreciate the freedom.

 

[Frederick]

I don't agree that 18 year olds should be considered adults for the simple reason they are not mature enough. An immature 18 year old commits a foolish, childish crime and it means a criminal record that impacts his entire future until death. At one time that would be a juvenile crime or event and the police record would be expunged once the individual reached 21 years of age and was considered an adult.
However, in 1971 both sides of congress voted that an 18 year old could vote and changed the Constitution as such due to the anti-Vietnam demonstrations across the nation. Now we have problem, many are heavily influenced by liberal and often communist professors in our universities and they are demonstrating again and yes, voting.
However, consider this: At just 19 years old, Audie Murphy had already won two Silver Stars and the Distinguished Service Cross, and he was leading men into battle. He was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor at the age of 20.. The military makes a difference in the training and making of men. It is said that if something is worth fighting for it is worth keeping and if something is earned it is valued. A lot of young people haven't earned freedom, they take it and extract what they want from it and then want to change it for the rest of us. Perhaps we need to reenact the draft to give al youth a sense of direction, respect for others and appreciate the freedoms we have in this nation. I have the feeling that many don't appreciate the freedom.

Was Audie Murphy made by the military or did military service simply bring out the inherit bravery and maturity in him?

The military might give some a level of maturity and responsibility but the military is only molding the material it is given. If the material is bad, Military service won't make a difference.

For every Audie Murphy there is a Bergdahl or Bradley "Chelsea" Manning.

Also, not all young men are eligible for military service. And an army of volunteers is more effective than an army of conscripts.

 

[John6185]

Yes, you are correct, what do you want to bet that Audie Murphy had parents that disciplined him as a youngster? That has a bearing on the making of an adult as well and I believe that is the nation's problem...the youth haven't been corrected to follow the narrow path and it is the broad pathway that leads to destruction.

 

[Pokinfun]

Yes, you are correct, what do you want to bet that Audie Murphy had parents that disciplined him as a youngster? That has a bearing on the making of an adult as well and I believe that is the nation's problem...the youth haven't been corrected to follow the narrow path and it is the broad pathway that leads to destruction.

I think the reason Audie Murphy did the things he did was because he was not yet an adult. His immature problem solving caused him to be soooooooooooooooo brave.

 

[Pokinfun]

BTW I appreciate the civil discourse - we need more of that on almost every topic. I am not advocating for a tiered system just saying I can see the argument. I guess I have to admit here, up front, that I am also not in favor of birth-right citizenship and I don't mean just for immigrants I mean for anyone but the alternatives (universal citizenship tests, military service before citizenship, etc.) have their own bunch of potential problems so its not really a matter of picking the ideal so much as picking the problem set one believe's is less negative.

The birth-right citizenship thing is difficult. I think anyone that is receiving any sort of public assistance should have to exchange their voting rights.

 

[Catt57]

I have the feeling that many don't appreciate the freedom.

I think this is something we can all agree on...

 

[Gabriel42]

Ridiculous.