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Ranges and Self-Defense Skills

Discussion in 'Self Defense and Handgun Carry' started by gerhard1, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. doctorjj

    doctorjj Sharpshooter

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    The best handgun trainer in the world, literally, is right here in Tulsa. Mike Seekander. If you haven’t trained with him, you are missing out. Why spend the money traveling to Gunsite which teaches outdated techniques?
     
  2. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Sharpshooter

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    Agreed; this is an important skill to have and not just shooting while moving to cover. One thing worth pointing out is that when the GG moves it forces the BG to react to him. With his original plans screwed up, he is forced to come up with something new on the spur of the moment. I've also heard it described as breaking the BG's OODA loop.

    This can present the GG with an opportunity to run, if he is capable, or it can make the BG flee. If the GG is not capable of running (I'm not) and the BG does not run himself, the GG can use the time afforded by the BG's confusion to employ the defensive force needed.

    It has been suggested that the best directions in which to move are forward diagonals (10 or 2 o'clock) or rarely diagonally to the rear. If you draw and shoot after you move, great. If you can draw and shoot while you move, that is better still. That is what I intend to practice as soon as I can drive on my farm. Hopefully sometime this week.

    The great advantage I have is that I own my range, and it's a three-sided berm. This makes it possible to pivot and shoot in different directions at multiple targets, something that is rarely possible at most ranges.
     
  3. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Sharpshooter

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    I have several thoughts on this thread that I’ll post a bit later today. I’ve been watching it since it started. I see many good parts to run with. But I thought I would start here since you placed some emphasis on it.

    So my question to start a bit of dialogue on it.

    What do you think are the chances that you would need to preform a reload during a civilian self-defense event?
     
  4. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Sharpshooter

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    Training for what? Doing Drive-by shootings? :)

    From a moving car at a stationary target, I can’t see wasting ammo for the self-defense aspect of it. Entertainment value maybe, as it might be fun.

    Shooting from a non-moving car seated on either side with and without a passenger (dummy) has a significantly greater chance of duplicating the needs of the average carrying civilian. Even in two chairs at a range it could be done.

    What real-life scenarios would involve room clearing from a self-defense aspect?
     
  5. Defcon Shooter

    Defcon Shooter Sharpshooter

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    Too me induced stress is the best thing for defense shooting. We often build portable walls and lay out restaurant and grocery store simulations using tables chairs fake walls. Make folks run until their chest is heaving give them a scenario at the the door then turn them loose while we scream and yell and generally screw with them. Fun to watch folks go from flustered and skull f'd to goal oriented machines. Things like slipping in dummy rounds that I have watched folks just completely shut down become so automatic the shooter does not even recall clearing the jam. Watching folks shoot and do retention loadings before pieing the next doorway where before they jerked the trigger on locked back slides. I think you can learn more in your home with a blue gun than standing at the firing line of most indoor ranges. My wife and myself will be doing the force on force classes at gunsite next. Although Clint Smith says we can come take his defensive pistol II but I need about 400 rounds more frangible ammo for that class.
     
  6. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I had sort of hoped someone would jump on this, so here's my thoughts on it: Specifically, the chances that one would need to preform a reload during a civilian self-defense is based on this.

    Let's suppose, for the sake of discussion, that you had to fire your weapon in order to defend yourself as you were getting back in your car at the local Convenience Store. However, the Bad Guy made a grave error in judgement and not only pointed a weapon at you, but told you he was going to kill you as well. You quickly realize that the SHTF and made the decision to shoot, and fortunately, you were able to draw and fire in order to stop the threat, and you fired 3 (or was it 4?) rounds from your single-stack handgun or your 5-shot revolver. The Bad Guy drops, you kick his weapon aside, and yell for someone to call 911. Your adrenaline is up, heart is racing, blood pressure is through the roof! Do you re-holster at this point? Keep him covered while waiting on the Police? Administer first-aid? Then something tells you that he might not be alone...and there you are, behind cover of some kind hopefully, with one in the chamber and a few rounds left in your magazine (or cylinder). I don't know about you, or anyone else, but I'm gonna drop the partially expended magazine and slam in a fresh one ASAP. (or execute a speed strip reload). I'll keep the partially loaded mag near me, if I can, as the situation either stabilizes and the Police get there, or if I have to engage the Bad Guy's accomplice, who in a fit of rage has now jumped from the driver's seat of his car and is running towards me, maybe firing as he charges me, screaming how I just shot his brother.

    The chances of this happening are really very slim, about as much as me having to shoot someone when I go to the store for my wife here in a minute, but I damn sure will have a speed strip in my pocket when I go, and If I do have to use my gun, I will execute a reload as soon as I feel I can, given the situation.
     
  7. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Sharpshooter

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    Mike Seeklander sounds like what I want. He's fairly close, and the courses I'd be interested in are one-day. Thanks; I'll give him some thought.
     
  8. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Sharpshooter

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    Joel, I completely agree with you here. The need for a speed reload would really be unusual for civilians, but I sill practice them. I supose that I'd rather know how than not.

    After I am assured of my 610's reliability, I'll start carrying it, and I will also carry two or more moon clips with the same ammo as that in the gun. If I have to use it, I'll call 9-1-1, reload and then re-holster.
     
  9. druryj

    druryj Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I’m worried about that 610 Gary. It’s a POS. You really should just forget about it and chalk it up to a bad day. You should just carry one of your proven revolvers, and because you’re such a good guy, I’ll take that 610 off your hands buddy old pal old friend. You’re welcome.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Tanis143

    Tanis143 Sharpshooter

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    I've not taken in firearms training yet, hope to remedy that this year. However, one of the reasons I've stuck with USSA even with their declining maintenance is that they allow defensive shooting practice. They have 19 bays for this, nine 25 yard bays for pistols and ten 50 yard bays for rifles and pistols. There is no rate of fire limit, no static position, pretty much as long as you're shooting into the back berm you are free to do as you will. On the steel challenge bays (bays 1-6 on the 25 yard bays) we do quick target acquisition while moving. On the pistol bays without steel targets we do accuracy while moving and while drawing from the holster.

    I can agree that with certain range types strict rules are needed. Its nice to find a range that is more relaxed for working on real life skills as apposed to just accuracy.
     
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