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<blockquote data-quote="dennishoddy" data-source="post: 3240269" data-attributes="member: 5412"><p>You have several great points and I agree with them.</p><p>To get my first point across, the ranges have insurance and have to abide by the rules of safety and those that their carrier require to get the lowest $$ paid for their policy and allow them to remain open and make a profit.</p><p></p><p>Some of the range rules in indoor and outdoor ranges are draconian in nature and not covered by any insurance but by the owners and their ideas of utmost safety so they can keep their range open even though it may not benefit the defensive shooter. I think it was the Banner outdoor range with a range nazi and bullhorn that didn't allow rapid fire and other insane rules, but that range was alway full.</p><p></p><p>It's their range and their rules so one has to abide by them or find a place elsewhere to shoot if they don't like them.</p><p></p><p>If one needs to get into defensive shooting, my suggestion would be to enter match competitions.</p><p>Steel Challenge for the newer shooters to learn how to shoot fast and hit a target fast and then graduate to USPSA or IDPA which ever is closest to you. In USPSA or IDPA your running and shooting using barricades, barriers, and shooting ports while reloading on the run and being accurate in your shooting. Of course nobody is shooting back, but it gives training in trigger control, proper grip, target assessment and strategy about how to run the course. </p><p> </p><p>You don't have to be an athlete to shoot USPSA/IDPA. I've seen lots of folks just fast walk the 30 round course of fire and not run because they want the ability to learn the basics of shooting fast and shooting accurately.</p><p></p><p>I'm currently shooting a $500 factory pistol with a red dot in the open gun class where $3000 pistols are common knowing I'm going to come in close to last place because of some vision issues that require me to shoot the dot and I'm too lazy to remove the mag well to put me into the carry optics division....meaning I'm loving to shoot and not really into the competition part of it, but every time one is out shooting that venue your honing your shooting skills.</p><p></p><p>When you think you might be really good, look at the TDSA training course in Tulsa. You will be training with some of the best competition shooters in the country, and one of them is on this forum although I don't think he teaches there now.</p><p>After a thousand rounds in two days, you will not believe how well you have improved with their training.</p><p></p><p>So, after all this diatribe, find a range that allows one to practice how you want. That is a difficult thing because no range in Oklahoma keeps training props on the range but one that I know of that allows one to set up props and shoot how you want but one.</p><p>You guessed it....Ponca City. I know this sounds like a sales proposition for a membership, but its not. Just stating the facts.</p><p>Gary, if you and your wife/friends would like to be my guest for a day of shooting, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you and it's just an hour away. We have over 40 pieces of falling steel on the pistol bays alone as well as barricades, walls, plastic drums and paper target stands to set up any kind of shooting scenario one desires. Drawing from the holster is permitted. Full Auto is permitted.</p><p>The targets in kansas your talking about may be two different styles and not requiring the "head" cut off. USPSA has two target styles.</p><p>You have the metric which is "humanoid" in some opinions and the headless targets for the "sensitive shooters".</p><p></p><p><img src="https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/New_IDPATarget-1.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p><img src="https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/classic_target_t.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dennishoddy, post: 3240269, member: 5412"] You have several great points and I agree with them. To get my first point across, the ranges have insurance and have to abide by the rules of safety and those that their carrier require to get the lowest $$ paid for their policy and allow them to remain open and make a profit. Some of the range rules in indoor and outdoor ranges are draconian in nature and not covered by any insurance but by the owners and their ideas of utmost safety so they can keep their range open even though it may not benefit the defensive shooter. I think it was the Banner outdoor range with a range nazi and bullhorn that didn't allow rapid fire and other insane rules, but that range was alway full. It's their range and their rules so one has to abide by them or find a place elsewhere to shoot if they don't like them. If one needs to get into defensive shooting, my suggestion would be to enter match competitions. Steel Challenge for the newer shooters to learn how to shoot fast and hit a target fast and then graduate to USPSA or IDPA which ever is closest to you. In USPSA or IDPA your running and shooting using barricades, barriers, and shooting ports while reloading on the run and being accurate in your shooting. Of course nobody is shooting back, but it gives training in trigger control, proper grip, target assessment and strategy about how to run the course. You don't have to be an athlete to shoot USPSA/IDPA. I've seen lots of folks just fast walk the 30 round course of fire and not run because they want the ability to learn the basics of shooting fast and shooting accurately. I'm currently shooting a $500 factory pistol with a red dot in the open gun class where $3000 pistols are common knowing I'm going to come in close to last place because of some vision issues that require me to shoot the dot and I'm too lazy to remove the mag well to put me into the carry optics division....meaning I'm loving to shoot and not really into the competition part of it, but every time one is out shooting that venue your honing your shooting skills. When you think you might be really good, look at the TDSA training course in Tulsa. You will be training with some of the best competition shooters in the country, and one of them is on this forum although I don't think he teaches there now. After a thousand rounds in two days, you will not believe how well you have improved with their training. So, after all this diatribe, find a range that allows one to practice how you want. That is a difficult thing because no range in Oklahoma keeps training props on the range but one that I know of that allows one to set up props and shoot how you want but one. You guessed it....Ponca City. I know this sounds like a sales proposition for a membership, but its not. Just stating the facts. Gary, if you and your wife/friends would like to be my guest for a day of shooting, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you and it's just an hour away. We have over 40 pieces of falling steel on the pistol bays alone as well as barricades, walls, plastic drums and paper target stands to set up any kind of shooting scenario one desires. Drawing from the holster is permitted. Full Auto is permitted. The targets in kansas your talking about may be two different styles and not requiring the "head" cut off. USPSA has two target styles. You have the metric which is "humanoid" in some opinions and the headless targets for the "sensitive shooters". [IMG]https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/New_IDPATarget-1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/classic_target_t.jpg[/IMG] [/QUOTE]
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