Red Flag Keeps Spreading......South Dakota

[tRidiot]

I agree with you, but addressing the mental health issue involves many actions that are "infringing" on a persons rights.

When someone is a criminal or a danger, you go through a process to infringe on THAT person's "rights". You lock them up or institute restrictions on THEM.

You don't restrict everyone else.

And the problem with so-called "red flag laws" is the lack of due process, the lack of any evidence to 'convict', the presumption of guilt before innocence and the lack of appropriate legal redress of grievances. And most especially the lack of consequence to the state or to individuals whom use these statutes as a tool in a personal vendetta.

You don't throw out due process for the sake of expediency. It's unconstitutional. Period.

 

[tRidiot]

No, due process must be part of any legislation.

Standing off stage and saying nothing will work and everything is unconstitutional will not solve anything, nor will it keep laws from being implemented that we will not like.

We must be part of the conversation.

That's why we must be willing to discuss these ideas among ourselves, and have open minds.

This is the problem... the left is all about 'incremental' legislation. And that is what they are doing - except in cases like Virginia where they try a massive gun grab as soon as they see an opening. We cannot afford to have incremental creeping erosion of our rights - either 2A, 1A or 4A. And those are the ones they are working on... little by little.

There is no compromise with people who want you exterminated.

 

[chuter]

No, due process must be part of any legislation.

Standing off stage and saying nothing will work and everything is unconstitutional will not solve anything, nor will it keep laws from being implemented that we will not like.

We must be part of the conversation.

That's why we must be willing to discuss these ideas among ourselves, and have open minds.

I agree. Do you have any ideas for what could be the next step?
Unfortunately, I don't think any of us have a lot money to work with making slick ads like Bloomberg.

 

[tRidiot]

I agree. Do you have any ideas for what could be the next step?
Unfortunately, I don't think any of us have a lot money to work with making slick ads like Bloomberg.

Not to mention, if we have a pro-2A, pro-personal responsibility, pro-accountability message, no matter how much we could come up with, the major networks would never let our message be heard.

 

[gerhard1]

Red flag laws are not, will not, and can not be constitutional. Period.

Why would a law that protected gun-owner's due-process rights (assuming that such a law could be crafted) not meet constitutional muster?

 

[MacFromOK]

Why would a law that protected gun-owner's due-process rights (assuming that such a law could be crafted) not meet constitutional muster?

I think it's the "assuming" part that folks are having trouble with. :/

 

[Rollpin]

How does one prove a negative (They aren’t crazy or a danger)?

Red flag laws essentially gaslight the sane and non dangerous individuals while doing nothing truly effective for real nutcases (institutionalization) or violent (incarceration) persons.

Worse, they’re absolutely a violation of due process.

I wonder how many non dangerous individuals will become dangerous once they realize they are already seen as such in the eyes of the “law”?

 

[MacFromOK]

How does one prove a negative (They aren’t crazy or a danger)?

Good point.