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The Water Cooler
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Remember Toxic Masculinity?---Dad Teaches Trans Son to Shave in Heartwarming New Gillette Ad
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<blockquote data-quote="Aries" data-source="post: 3238702" data-attributes="member: 44328"><p>The Bible in places says not to judge, and in others to judge... both have to be kept in proper context. For example, the first couple of verses you cite go on to say why are you trying to remove a speck from your neighbor's eye while you have a log in your own eye? (paraphrasing) They seem to be more about hypocritical judging than a universal condemnation of judging. Other citations talk about facing God or Christ at judgment... would you contend (assuming belief in God) that God has no right to judge His creation? Some others, I don't really see the connection to the conversation regarding "judging". BTW, Romans 14 in particular discusses things that were prohibited for Jews under the law of Moses, but were not addressed for Christians under the gospel of Christ. So specifically, Paul is saying don't judge Gentile Christians for breaking rules that were never given to them (and no longer apply to Jewish Christians under the gospel). It certainly is not teaching that judgment is universally condemned, in context it specifically talks about things that were permitted under the gospel.</p><p></p><p>But TM is correct as well... In Romans 16, Paul says to mark those who cause division. Impossible to do without making a judgment. In 1 Corinthians 5:11 and following he warns not to keep company with a brother who is a fornicator, an idolator, a drunkard (and several other types) so much as to share a meal with them. Impossible to do without making a judgment. Jesus Himself said in John 7:24, "Don't judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."</p><p></p><p>But I would argue that when a Christian relates what God has said on any topic, it is not the Christian who is judging, but rather it is God, who uses people to bear His message. In 1 Samuel 8, Israel tells the prophet Samuel that they want a king to rule over them (rather than judges as God had appointed). Samuel prayed to God about it who said, "Do what they want. They have not rejected you, they have rejected me."</p><p></p><p>So there are situations where the Bible says DON'T judge, and situations where the Bible says DO judge... and they have to be balanced (within context). You make some valid points about how we (Christians) sometimes make application of those principles, and you are right that we are bad about "cherry picking", but to suggest that judgment is universally condemned does not take in the full picture. Where God has clearly defined something as sin, it is not a matter of ME judging, but rather warning people that God has given His judgment. It may not look any different to some people.</p><p></p><p>People are of course free to ignore warnings, but there are consequences for that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aries, post: 3238702, member: 44328"] The Bible in places says not to judge, and in others to judge... both have to be kept in proper context. For example, the first couple of verses you cite go on to say why are you trying to remove a speck from your neighbor's eye while you have a log in your own eye? (paraphrasing) They seem to be more about hypocritical judging than a universal condemnation of judging. Other citations talk about facing God or Christ at judgment... would you contend (assuming belief in God) that God has no right to judge His creation? Some others, I don't really see the connection to the conversation regarding "judging". BTW, Romans 14 in particular discusses things that were prohibited for Jews under the law of Moses, but were not addressed for Christians under the gospel of Christ. So specifically, Paul is saying don't judge Gentile Christians for breaking rules that were never given to them (and no longer apply to Jewish Christians under the gospel). It certainly is not teaching that judgment is universally condemned, in context it specifically talks about things that were permitted under the gospel. But TM is correct as well... In Romans 16, Paul says to mark those who cause division. Impossible to do without making a judgment. In 1 Corinthians 5:11 and following he warns not to keep company with a brother who is a fornicator, an idolator, a drunkard (and several other types) so much as to share a meal with them. Impossible to do without making a judgment. Jesus Himself said in John 7:24, "Don't judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment." But I would argue that when a Christian relates what God has said on any topic, it is not the Christian who is judging, but rather it is God, who uses people to bear His message. In 1 Samuel 8, Israel tells the prophet Samuel that they want a king to rule over them (rather than judges as God had appointed). Samuel prayed to God about it who said, "Do what they want. They have not rejected you, they have rejected me." So there are situations where the Bible says DON'T judge, and situations where the Bible says DO judge... and they have to be balanced (within context). You make some valid points about how we (Christians) sometimes make application of those principles, and you are right that we are bad about "cherry picking", but to suggest that judgment is universally condemned does not take in the full picture. Where God has clearly defined something as sin, it is not a matter of ME judging, but rather warning people that God has given His judgment. It may not look any different to some people. People are of course free to ignore warnings, but there are consequences for that. [/QUOTE]
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