Rush to "Gun Control" thoughts...

[Gideon]

Would you elaborate on actual solutions that are unpalatable?

I wrote a short list of things with full explanations but decided maybe this isn't an appropriate place to go off.

I'll make it short:
Open the insane asylums, force treatment.
Round them up, put them in camps. (End homelessness with this ONE SIMPLE TRICK!)
Completely redesign our system of schools and prisons. Prison is for forcibly altering human behavior, not warehousing assholes. There should be lots of types of school, not a one-size-fits-all Prussian-style prison where we cram all the kids regardless of their learning and social style.
Unleash the police. Alter Constitution to unjam the legal system (currently not possible to have a "speedy" trial).
Freedom is downstream from order and social cohesion.
Men must be governed.

I'll elaborate somewhere else if you want.

 

[OKCHunter]

I wrote a short list of things with full explanations but decided maybe this isn't an appropriate place to go off.

I'll make it short:
Open the insane asylums, force treatment.
Round them up, put them in camps. (End homelessness with this ONE SIMPLE TRICK!)
Completely redesign our system of schools and prisons. Prison is for forcibly altering human behavior, not warehousing assholes. There should be lots of types of school, not a one-size-fits-all Prussian-style prison where we cram all the kids regardless of their learning and social style.
Unleash the police. Alter Constitution to unjam the legal system (currently not possible to have a "speedy" trial).
Freedom is downstream from order and social cohesion.
Men must be governed.

I'll elaborate somewhere else if you want.

Thank you. I agree that addressing mental health issues and rethinking our education system is critical (look at how many of these shooters are outcasts and / or subjected to bullying). But, there are some slippery slopes, especially regarding altering the Constitution or espousing the idea that men must be governed. You are correct - I shouldn’t have hijacked this thread. My apologies to the OP.

 

[jakeman]

Thank you. I agree that addressing mental health issues and rethinking our education system is critical (look at how many of these shooters are outcasts and / or subjected to bullying). But, there are some slippery slopes, especially regarding altering the Constitution or espousing the idea that men must be governed. You are correct - I shouldn’t have hijacked this thread. My apologies to the OP.

Can’t really “like” his post, but I believe he’s at least on the right track.

I got torched for suggesting a revision of “red flag laws” to make them inclusive of due process. I wasn’t suggesting a gun law. It’s a defective people law, and if we continue to be knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, small minded, simple fuks instead of admitting that “legal access” should be denied to some people, then the people that think a barrel shroud is “the shoulder thing that goes up” will write the laws, and we won’t like them. The gun community better get involved, because if we just continue on with “meh rights” we’re going to lose those rights.

I don’t want mentally defective persons or violent criminals to have legal access to firearms. That opinion isn’t ever going to change. If you threaten to shoot up a school, I don’t give a **** how old you are, you don’t ever get to legally possess a firearm. You commit a violent felony, you don’t ever get to legally possess a firearm. Actions have consequences. Don’t like it, tough ****. Don’t do those things. I dunno how we get all that done, we’re above my pay grade, but we better be involved in crafting the laws, because the left wants all of the guns, not just the scary black ones. Controlling guns isn’t the answer. Guns are things. It’s violent people control that we need. How many times have repeat felons shot and killed someone and we all said, “he should have been in jail. Damn liberal DA’s and judges”. I agree. Lock them up and throw away the key. Those that would perpetrate violent crimes on the law abiding citizens of this country should forfeit their right to freedom. Some of them should forfeit their right to life.

It ain’t the guns, it’s the people. Mentally defective, evil bastards shooting up schools with legally acquired firearms does not help our cause. It hurts it.

How do we do all that without infringing on your and my rights, I don’t know, but we better figure it out. They will eventually gain enough traction to take them, and then we’ll have to kill or die in an effort to keep them. I believe there are people that shouldn’t have firearms. These two latest mass murderers are excellent examples of those people.

 

[Bigdawg90]

My wife and I were talking about this last night. We tossed ideas back and forth about mental health and the need for citizens to be armed for self defense.

The fact of the matter is, the gun violence issue is mainly driven by suicide and criminals killing criminals. If you remove those, the U.S. is far more on a similar level as other nations with much stricter gun control. Removing our freedom won’t protect anyone. We’ve learned that over and over again.

As a very strong proponent of gun rights and someone who used to be a high school teacher, I can say that the fear surrounding a school shooting is real. There’s no way to harden the target without arming literally every teacher. That’s just not plausible because most teachers are intellectuals and not the type of person to be of any use during that situation. Do I want my children in a school with armed teachers…….nope.

My wife didn’t like it, and it will be a very unpopular opinion, but there’s is just no way to eliminate all evil. There is no excuse for pedophiles and they are frequently swiftly arrested, convicted and have a horrible experience in jail. That doesn’t stop them. We took away manual castration because that was seen as an abuse, then we took away chemical castration, but that didn’t even stop them.

Thousands of children are abused every year and yet there are no background checks to become a parent, no state initiated training or state run checkups.

My point, at the end of the day, there is no way to stop this type of thing from happening and keep our rights. I’d rather have my rights and be able to defend my children myself than hand over my freedom and hope that my children are safer in government hands.

If the Police response taught us anything, it’s that there are those in the profession that are not up to the task. I can’t trust the government with my healthcare, I’m not gonna trust it with my children.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

Why is it so many supposed 2A supporters are so quick to hand over freedoms? I don’t care how many shootings we have had or how many we will have. They have nothing to do with my freedom. The 2A is absolute, regardless what our brain dead president, or anyone else says. We can pass 1,000 more laws and ban all semi autos and these shootings won’t stop. And then guess what happens? The communists will come for the rest. This will never stop until we are disarmed. We don’t need to “do something”. Not in the way most say. We need to fight to remove the anti gun laws we currently have. They do nothing to protect anyone. Do gun free zones protect our schools? No. We see time and time again these schools get shot up because the sick shooter knows it’s a gun free zone. This will continue. Notice how the government ( on both sides) never want to do anything that will actually help? It’s because neither side cares. It really pisses me off how many folks on here are willing to hand over their freedom. And I don’t want to hear ( I’m just thinking out loud). No anti gun thought will ever enter my mind or be spoke out of my mouth. I actually truly support the 2A.

 

[JoeUSooner]

"Men must be governed."???????????????? I suggest you think carefully about that, SirROFL...

When men are honest and moral, no laws are needed. When men are dishonest and immoral, no laws are effective.

 

[Lakenut]

What a strange coincidence…. The PM of New Zealand was in the capital today. Convinent for the main stream to point out that they banned all semi autos a few years ago.

 

[Snattlerake]

I'm a simple man with common sense. The persons that kill are using the best means available to them to do this dastardly deed. Semi automatic weapons are deadly and can produce massive casualties. Keeping them out of the hands of the mentally ill is the entire challenge.

Banning the weapons from all society is off the table, it just won't work and will never get passed.

IF, we are going to have background checks, I am in 1000% agreement with @ratski in as much as ALL RECORDS should be available and searchable for background checks.

The above begs the question, who is the deciding factor on these checks? Is it a totality of the circumstances with a rating schedule or a tallied score? Ten points if you have ever been convicted of a felony? Two points if you talked back to your teacher in high school? Hell, we can't even come up with a fair way of deciding which college football team gets to play for the championship.

I am also in agreement with @chuter about stiff penalties for false reports of individuals being mentally ill and possibly dangerous to others and the reporting party should be so warned.

Is there a common thread between all of these mass murderers? Yes, they are all antisocial and most have displayed several outward signs of this through social media, personal statements, manifestos, past criminal behavior, etc.

Self policing doesn't work, the family unit doesn't work, therefore it is going to have to be an outside agency or court system to decide and then the hardest part, enforce.

 

[Aries]

The Pros of stiff penalties for false reports on red flag laws are they discourage the inevitable, which is reporting someone you don't like even though they are not a danger, but you want to make their life miserable.

The Con is it discourages reporting ANYONE, even if they in fact are a danger, because there's a chance you're wrong, or there eventually is not enough evidence that they are a danger.

So if you're going to enact stiff penalties for false reporting, you might as well not have red flag laws. Prudent people won't report, too much risk involved.

 

[avtomatkalashnikov47]

So here are some of my thoughts on the current "rush to do something" about firearms.

I heard one talking head this morning saying that "we all have to accept the loss of some civil liberties" for there to be progress in "gun control."
Well OK, then...

I think that all records should be available during the background checks that are done for a firearm purchase through an FFL.
By that, I mean ALL.

All Juvenile records need to be available instead of closed or sealed. How many times would this have prevented a problem?

All Medical records need to be available to be screened for psychotic/psychological issues. Especially certain medications. To include Medical Marijuana.

All Federal records need to be searchable. This is to include all Military Medical records and police records.

I'm not in favor of the current flavor of "red flag laws".
I think that due process needs to be involved.
Just saying "he's got a gun and is a menace" should NOT be sufficient cause to remove someone's firearms.
Any more than saying "he's got a car and likes to drink" should be sufficient cause to remove someone's automobile.

I'm sure that there are plenty more, but if "we all have to accept the loss of some civil liberties" then isn't it time that "we all" includes "all" and not just firearms owners??
I'm sure that this will stir the pot, but seriously, so many times something that was known before a tragedy could have stopped the tragedy.

Just want to see...

no. just no.

you sure you are on the right website bud?

there is no compromise.
NONE.

they could make 20,000 more gun laws and the insanity would continue.
"We need to ban optics from being mounted on firearms! they make guns more deadly and accurate"
"no one needs a scope to go hunting, if you cant hit within 100 yards with iron sights...."
" you dont need a high power scope on a rifle, nobody needs to be shooting at deer a mile away"