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The Range
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Sage Dynamics Red Dot study
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<blockquote data-quote="ef9turbo" data-source="post: 3386783" data-attributes="member: 790"><p>An RDS on a pistol has gained a lot of momentum in the last year or so. Within the last year, I sent a proposal to my PD about having them purchase 3 G17 MOS platforms and optics for the instructors to T&E for a year and got it approved. Listed below are what we purchased for T&E.</p><p></p><p>-3 Glock 17 gen 5 MOS</p><p>-3 CHPWS plates</p><p>-3 Safariland RDS holsters</p><p>-1 Trijicon RMR type 2 3.25moa</p><p>-1 Trijicon RMR type 2 6.5moa</p><p>-1 Holosun 507c V2</p><p></p><p>Initially it was difficult finding the dot due to the thousands upon thousands of reps of finding your sights during presentation. I had to ingrain in my head "Target/threat focus" to start picking up the red dot faster. You also need to think about bringing the rear slide plate to your nose instead of sights inline with your eyes. Your body will automatically, and with some practice, pick up the dot as it comes into view during your presentation. I also noticed that the times that I did not find my dot, my support hand grip was not.. fundamentally sound; locked out, strong grip, etc. When I fixed those two, the dot was there 95% of the time. </p><p></p><p>Zeroing is simple as I used Sage Dynamics technique and was able to do it in 20 rounds and maintain a 2-2.5" group at 25 yards. Running a qual was easy and felt like cheating. Shooting fast and maintaining solid hits was easy. From the holster, with a few reps, it became easy. Still not as fast as I was with iron sights, but a consistent 1.25-5 second draw and hit, 7 yards at the CLEET head scoring ring is very simply to do from a triple retention SLS/ALS holster. </p><p></p><p>The biggest learning curve for red dots is to threat/target focus and support hand grip. When those two are achieved, it is very hard to beat. Red dots are the wave of the future for both civilian and mil/leo world. When you're in a shooting, you're almost 100% likely to be target/threat focused anyways and the red dot will help make shots easier. The data is there and supports it. </p><p></p><p>Now to quality of optics. The RMR is a beast, but has parallax issues and is not a true 1x, though there have been very few that I've looked through that are. The RMR has a bluish tint to it, but like anything else, the more you shoot it the less you notice it. To change the battery on the RMR, the optic has to be taken off. In theory, zero should return, but always verify it. We will probably change it out every year during our qualification week and verify zero then. </p><p></p><p>The Holosun glass is clear and MUCH better than the RMR. The dot IMO is much crisper and less of a blob, but the dot alone also is a 2moa. The dot/circle and circle only are huge and bothersome for me, but I can see it being beneficial to new shooters. The V2 has a side battery tray, so you no longer need to take the optic off to change the battery. Because they did that, they also lost the ability to run a bigger battery. The Holosun does have a long battery life and the solar. </p><p></p><p>I personally bought a Holosun 508T V2 and got it a week and a half ago from Holosun. The optic itself is essentially the 507c but with a square face and titanium body. It has all the same features, just a better built optic. Glass is clear and optic isn't as big as the 507/508 v1's. So far, my initial thoughts is it is a much better optic than the 507c. I will not tell you my prices on both, but for the little extra cost, it would be dumb to not just get a 508T V2. I'm in line for a 509, so I look forward to that too. </p><p></p><p>Overall, I think that the learning curve for an optic is easier than that of iron sights, simply because of having only one focal plane. An optic is NOT going to make you a better shooter, though I believe it can make you a better shooter faster. </p><p></p><p>My PD does mandatory monthly range and we will be allowing our guys/gals to shoot our guns, different optics and MOA to see how they like it. Us three are using them on duty now to test durability.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ef9turbo, post: 3386783, member: 790"] An RDS on a pistol has gained a lot of momentum in the last year or so. Within the last year, I sent a proposal to my PD about having them purchase 3 G17 MOS platforms and optics for the instructors to T&E for a year and got it approved. Listed below are what we purchased for T&E. -3 Glock 17 gen 5 MOS -3 CHPWS plates -3 Safariland RDS holsters -1 Trijicon RMR type 2 3.25moa -1 Trijicon RMR type 2 6.5moa -1 Holosun 507c V2 Initially it was difficult finding the dot due to the thousands upon thousands of reps of finding your sights during presentation. I had to ingrain in my head "Target/threat focus" to start picking up the red dot faster. You also need to think about bringing the rear slide plate to your nose instead of sights inline with your eyes. Your body will automatically, and with some practice, pick up the dot as it comes into view during your presentation. I also noticed that the times that I did not find my dot, my support hand grip was not.. fundamentally sound; locked out, strong grip, etc. When I fixed those two, the dot was there 95% of the time. Zeroing is simple as I used Sage Dynamics technique and was able to do it in 20 rounds and maintain a 2-2.5" group at 25 yards. Running a qual was easy and felt like cheating. Shooting fast and maintaining solid hits was easy. From the holster, with a few reps, it became easy. Still not as fast as I was with iron sights, but a consistent 1.25-5 second draw and hit, 7 yards at the CLEET head scoring ring is very simply to do from a triple retention SLS/ALS holster. The biggest learning curve for red dots is to threat/target focus and support hand grip. When those two are achieved, it is very hard to beat. Red dots are the wave of the future for both civilian and mil/leo world. When you're in a shooting, you're almost 100% likely to be target/threat focused anyways and the red dot will help make shots easier. The data is there and supports it. Now to quality of optics. The RMR is a beast, but has parallax issues and is not a true 1x, though there have been very few that I've looked through that are. The RMR has a bluish tint to it, but like anything else, the more you shoot it the less you notice it. To change the battery on the RMR, the optic has to be taken off. In theory, zero should return, but always verify it. We will probably change it out every year during our qualification week and verify zero then. The Holosun glass is clear and MUCH better than the RMR. The dot IMO is much crisper and less of a blob, but the dot alone also is a 2moa. The dot/circle and circle only are huge and bothersome for me, but I can see it being beneficial to new shooters. The V2 has a side battery tray, so you no longer need to take the optic off to change the battery. Because they did that, they also lost the ability to run a bigger battery. The Holosun does have a long battery life and the solar. I personally bought a Holosun 508T V2 and got it a week and a half ago from Holosun. The optic itself is essentially the 507c but with a square face and titanium body. It has all the same features, just a better built optic. Glass is clear and optic isn't as big as the 507/508 v1's. So far, my initial thoughts is it is a much better optic than the 507c. I will not tell you my prices on both, but for the little extra cost, it would be dumb to not just get a 508T V2. I'm in line for a 509, so I look forward to that too. Overall, I think that the learning curve for an optic is easier than that of iron sights, simply because of having only one focal plane. An optic is NOT going to make you a better shooter, though I believe it can make you a better shooter faster. My PD does mandatory monthly range and we will be allowing our guys/gals to shoot our guns, different optics and MOA to see how they like it. Us three are using them on duty now to test durability. [/QUOTE]
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