Sen. Cornyn, With NRA Blessing, Proposes Gun Background Checks

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Dale00

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Yes, there is a lot of media-driven BS regarding mass shooters, which actually aren't responsible for thousands of gun deaths every year. Most people in mental health circles are focusing on all of them, with the understanding the mass-shooters are the minority of the issue.

The psychologist who is promoting 7 sexes is a nice strawman, but doesn't address these gun issues in any way. There is definitely evidence that sex/gender isn't binary (in many species), but I'd like to see your evidence that psychologists aren't the folks who should be providing insight into these mental issues, and providing the best evidence-based practices to deal with them.

Also, the smallest category of deaths (from mass shooters) are the ones your talking about in gun-free zones. Most of the thousands of gun deaths every year are *not* in gun-free zones. This is the paradox that must be dealt with in regard to those that want more gun control.


Anecdotes are fun to talk about, but they certainly don't describe how most of the system works. And you will be arguing against people who believe the exact opposite, with a powerful statistic on their side...thousands of gun deaths ever year *not* in gun-free zones. How should we handle this dilemma?


The sex/gender issue is interesting and important but will get us way off track in a hurry. Perhaps I shouldn't have raised it at all but it is a sore point for those of us with a traditional point of view who are having an alien and (to us) morally wrong outlook forced upon us.

Can psychologists reduce the number of gun-related deaths? Some undoubtedly but how many? And how much freedom should we give up to in an effort to save more? Abdicating more and more authority to psychologists is a mistake IMO.

With all due respect to your profession, it poses a danger to our civil liberties. There is a thin line between it being a benign and caring profession and one which becomes a tool for statists. Are your professional societies pro 2A, neutral or anti 2A? Perhaps the answer is not clear cut but I do believe that many psychological "truths" are shaped by politics and economics rather than being a matter of verifiable scientific study.

We must not abdicate too much power to psychologists and psychiatrists who even with the best of intentions are not able to predict human behavior. The danger is one we are already seeing with the VA and our veterans - preemptive gun confiscation. This evil needs to be reversed in a hurry else it take root and spread.

"How should we handle this dilemma (of thousands of gun deaths)?"
Your question reveals the stress and pressure of your work. Thank you for what you do to try to help people in extreme circumstances. I do not know if we are facing an epidemic of murder and suicides in historic terms (my hunch is that we are not) but I am certain it seems that way from the perspective of mental health professionals. Instead of expecting you to do more, the answer is to restore the network of love and caring found in intact, healthy families and communities. You can't do that. It is the individual responsibility of each of us.
 

YukonGlocker

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You raise some great points. I'll try to address some of them without substantially distracting from the thread topic.

The sex/gender issue is interesting and important but will get us way off track in a hurry. Perhaps I shouldn't have raised it at all but it is a sore point for those of us with a traditional point of view who are having an alien and (to us) morally wrong outlook forced upon us...
Agreed that it will get us off track in a hurry.

...Can psychologists reduce the number of gun-related deaths?...
Yes.

...Some undoubtedly but how many?...
It depends a great deal on how all this unfolds (or doesn't) over time.

...And how much freedom should we give up to in an effort to save more?...
It's a great question, and one the weighs heavily in these types of decisions. I assure you the majority of psychologists consider this more than one might imagine, although those discussions never make the headlines in mainstream-media. It's really the same dilemma that happens when most any type social change is taking place.

...Abdicating more and more authority to psychologists is a mistake IMO...
It certainly could be. But if *somebody* is getting the authority to make decisions about mental health, who would you rather it go to? Personally, I'll take a panel of mental health professionals over any other group of people.

...With all due respect to your profession, it poses a danger to our civil liberties...
There may be some extreme individuals that pose a danger, but the "profession" does more to protect civil liberties than nearly any other one.

...There is a thin line between it being a benign and caring profession and one which becomes a tool for statists...
It has been a tool for statists for a *long* time, and still is. But that's the fringe of the profession...the vast majority are not.

...Are your professional societies pro 2A, neutral or anti 2A?...
None of the above. Psychological societies don't operate in this fashion because of the complexity involved in understanding such phenomena.

...but I do believe that many psychological "truths" are shaped by politics and economics rather than being a matter of verifiable scientific study...
Psychology doesn't assume there is any truth. And, although most movies, tv, and mainstream-media paint a very different picture of psychology; psychology starts with science first. This isn't to say "bad" science isn't conducted in psychology, because every field of science has its share of bad science; however, psychology has been *the* front runner (out of all scientific domains) in the race to eliminate bad science from within. Also, much of psychology focuses on how non-science, politics, and economics are the source of immense problems in our society...so those areas have no bigger critics than from psychology. Again, you can find outliers that are in it for the money and politics, but the vast majority are not.

...We must not abdicate too much power to psychologists and psychiatrists who even with the best of intentions are not able to predict human behavior...
One major goal of social science is to predict human behavior, and we can do a surprisingly good job at prediction with many behaviors (and surprisingly bad job with others). But I'm not sure where this fits in with the mental health and guns issue.

...The danger is one we are already seeing with the VA and our veterans - preemptive gun confiscation. This evil needs to be reversed in a hurry else it take root and spread...
I can't comment on this without learning more about it. Where can I read more about it?

..."How should we handle this dilemma (of thousands of gun deaths)?" Your question reveals the stress and pressure of your work...
It doesn't place any stress or pressure on me because this isn't my worry, nor question. Again, you don't have to convince me. I do, however, know that this is the dilemma that we (gun rights supporters) will have to battle. This will be a central point of the gun control debate. All the "gun-free zone" rhetoric will get trampled because the majority of gun deaths don't happen in gun-free zones. Gun-free zones are a major focus of gun rights supporters...but nobody else gives a s$hit about them because there's so much killing going on elsewhere. I'm simply trying to point out that this is one issue we should re-frame if we intend be effective in the coming gun control debates.

...Instead of expecting you to do more, the answer is to restore the network of love and caring found in intact, healthy families and communities. You can't do that. It is the individual responsibility of each of us.
Actually, many psychologist do just that...restore healthy, loving, and caring relationships in families and communities. If you think this can't be done, you don't know much at all about what psychology is doing. (but to be fair, nobody sees it in movies, tv, or main-stream media...hell, few individuals will openly talk about it)
 

mtncharlie1968

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OSA should shut down online gun sales and make all purchases go through dealers just to be sure no crazies are allowed to buy guns. Or just ban everyone from buying them.
All gun purchases made online still have to go through an FFL holder. Stop buying into the anti-gun misinformation.


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mtncharlie1968

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I have never been asked by a doctor if I own guns (the three doctors that I see are gun owners, and carry concealed), but if I were I would immediately take the questionaire back to the front desk, cancel the appointment, and search until I found one who didn't feel the need to know.

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Dave70968

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All gun purchases made online still have to go through an FFL holder. Stop buying into the anti-gun misinformation.


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Clearly you haven't seen OSA's classifieds.

Private sales not crossing state lines do not need to go through a dealer, whether online, in print classifieds, or just plain word-of-mouth.
 

CoyoteStalker

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This will be yet another way to take control, and you can bet there will be other things that get appended to the bill. It never ends the way it starts.

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