Shooting at Midtown Tulsa Gas Station

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BadgeBunny

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Michael Brown

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If what is reported is true he's already made a false statement and needs to keep his mouth shut. Tim Harris is gonna have a field day with this guy if he doesn't get no billed.


Oklahoma is not a grand jury state.

The district attorney makes the decisions on prosecutions unless enough signatures are gathered to convene a grand jury.

The only case I've seen where this occurred in relation to a lethal force case in Tulsa County recently was the killing of the Deadtown club owner and those signatures were gathered to obtain a prosecution not to decline one.

Michael Brown
 

nofearfactor

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Seems like a perfectly reasonable case of self defense to me. Not sure what your smeller detects.
No duh. Someone you have had trouble with in your past comes in a retail outlet in broad daylight,lifts their shirt and shows you a hand on a gun in their waistband,a gun that they are carrying illegally, and then tells you,"Do you want some"? And then you shoot them before they get a chance to shoot you. If that aint a self defense situation then what is. I woulda had to go to the bathroom and wipe my rear before I went downtown to answer questions.
 

458 SOCOM

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Shooter may have said to much, and reporters may have reported inaccurately.

I can see this being brought up as a reason to not override Brad Henry's veto. They will claim blood would have ran in the street, or the victim would have then been the assailant, ugh, this couldn't have come at a worse time.
 

458 SOCOM

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No duh. Someone you have had trouble with in your past comes in a retail outlet in broad daylight,lifts their shirt and shows you a hand on a gun in their waistband,a gun that they are carrying illegally, and then tells you,"Do you want some"? And then you shoot them before they get a chance to shoot you. If that aint a self defense situation then what is. I woulda had to go to the bathroom and wipe my rear before I went downtown to answer questions.

Plus I would have needed some pepto or tums, or something...
 

bettingpython

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http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100519_11_0_Thefor760557

Apparently the reason people outside heard so many shots wasnt because Gray couldnt shoot straight. ...

All the more reason I guess that we should either carry a gun with a large enough round that it will put someone down and keep them down or have a gun with enough rounds capacity to knock them down and then to have enough rounds left to be able to keep firing until they stay down. Dayum.

Interesting statistic I picked up in a TDSA class recently, 90% of people shot by a handgun survive, only 10% shot by a rifle survive.

The only certain instant non responsive kill is to interrupt the central nervous system the bridge of the nose right between the eye's.

We got some rather graphic pictures of individuals that absorbed upwards of 14 rounds of .40 caliber fire and continued to fight before someone grabbed a rifle and ended them.

8 to 10 shots in this context seems entirely reasonable to completely stop someone and just something else to keep in mind when considering what to carry and what to expect especially when fine motor skills go out the window.

As far as a large enough round to put them down once again the only sure non responsive kill is to end their central nervous system function. Mr Gray may have been effectively shooting straight to the center mass of the chest cavity.
 

penismightier

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UPDATE

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0510/737665.html

Tulsa - We're learning more about Tuesday night's fatal shooting at a Tulsa convenience store in which the gunman is claiming self defense.

Police say Travion Byrd was shot to death after arguing with a former reserve officer inside the store, located at 5th and Lewis. That former reserve officer eventually fired the fatal shots.

Today we were told the two had a history. Last year, the officer worked as a security guard and had helped arrest Byrd. And, we're told they had been arguing ever since. But this time, one of them was silenced forever.


Moe's Grill is open for business today. There is no sign this was the scene of a fatal shooting, but a security camera captured it all.

"I opened the door for him, let him come in and then he said 'cop, cop'," the store owner told NewsChannel 8.

He showed us the video tape, how he held the door for 22-year-old Travion Byrd. He walked straight over to Donald Gray.

"They were just cussing each other and I'm just begging them, both of them please stop."

On the video, you see the two going back and forth. Police say at some point, Byrd raised his shirt and showed a gun. And you can see Gray with his weapon in hand.

"They were just arguing and threatening each other," the owner says. "And then when I went to help the customer, it just happened. Bam bam bam."

We're not showing all the video. It's too graphic. But police say there was a gun lying next to Byrd once he was down. The question is was it self defense?

"I would say yes," the store owner says. "But, he was more aggressive than that."

How aggressive? The store owner says the shots continued once Byrd was down.

"I still scream at him, 'don't you not see he is dead?'"

Once it was over, Gray walked back to the counter, put the gun down and went outside.

The store owner is cooperating with police and has given them a copy of the video tape so they can determine if the shooting was in self defense.

We're told Gray had a license to carry a concealed weapon. He has not been arrested, nor charged in the case.
 

BryanDP

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For a group that's supposed to be pro concealed carry and pro 2nd amendment and all that, a LOT here certainly are quick to jump on the bandwagon against people that use their weapon on a defensive situation without really knowing any of the facts.

When I hear a report about a defensive shooting I always give the shooter the benefit of the doubt -- especially when the only "facts" (if you can call them that) about the situation I have are from media reports.

There is only ONE person here that could possibly be a better source than the media reports thus far and he has stated that he believes it to be a good shoot.

Bryan
 

Jefpainthorse

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For a group that's supposed to be pro concealed carry and pro 2nd amendment and all that, a LOT here certainly are quick to jump on the bandwagon against people that use their weapon on a defensive situation without really knowing any of the facts.

When I hear a report about a defensive shooting I always give the shooter the benefit of the doubt -- especially when the only "facts" (if you can call them that) about the situation I have are from media reports.

There is only ONE person here that could possibly be a better source than the media reports thus far and he has stated that he believes it to be a good shoot.

Bryan

There's only one person
+1

A suprising amount of people I've met carry CW because they have had some "bad blood" with someone in the past.... ex cops and judges carry for this very reason.

So do folks who have been sued, have crazy ex spouses, methed out kids who break in now and then, nutso neighbors from "Central Casting" and a host of other threats from our past and current lifes

We are not paranoid...just prepared. This case MAY be just about some issue just like this. But for the grace of God, any of us could end up in the same situation this very day.
 

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