Shooting on Brookside

[TheLastDaze]

The law states; one must have a reasonable fear of death or GREAT bodily harm.

Lets see, two guys who's been stalking and using verbal judo on a lone soldier on a motorcycle, apparently attempting to ram him with their truck.. spot their target in front of the bar, slam the truck in park, jump and and start throwing blows..

where I fear for my life is where when my attackers find out I have a gun grab it off my waist (or where ever) and shoot me to death to prove they the man.. anyone with any sense whatsoever could see his life was in danger....

did he deserve to die? I say no, but hes dead now adn won't be a problem to anyone else again..

this is totally justified....

 

[bettingpython]

Updated story here... writing is obviously not the forte of the "journalist" that submitted this piece. It is a bit unclear.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=11878365

 

[Stephen Cue]

Good luck with that. I hope you never have to find out.

+1, Bringing a gun to a fist fight; unless you're disabled, geriatric, or saddled with some other obvious atrophy, is considered excessive force.

 

[TulsaBandit]

+1, Bringing a gun to a fist fight; unless you're disabled, geriatric, or saddled with some other obvious atrophy, is considered excessive force.

A 2 on 1 fist fight? Maybe 3 on 1? Where do you stop and say it's ok to bring a gun to a "I know these 7 guys are going to stomp my face into the curb and leave me deformed fight"?

 

[Michael Brown]

A 2 on 1 fist fight? Maybe 3 on 1? Where do you stop and say it's ok to bring a gun to a "I know these 7 guys are going to stomp my face into the curb and leave me deformed fight"?

There is no cut and dry rule.

In my experience, and that is all it is, if two grown able-bodied men assault one able-bodied man, there is enough disparity of force to likely warrant a deadly force response.

"Warren on Homicide" is the closest you get to true cut and dried responses from a judge regarding deadly force law, but it is bigger than most encyclopedias and most lawyers don't even know it exists.

There is not a court in the land that will acquit you for shooting a single, unarmed attacker barring other contingencies.

FYI, this has been brought up dozens of times on this board alone and the answer never really changes.

If you want answers, consult a lawyer or do a considerable amount of legal research.

Michael Brown

 

[Stephen Cue]

A 2 on 1 fist fight? Maybe 3 on 1? Where do you stop and say it's ok to bring a gun to a "I know these 7 guys are going to stomp my face into the curb and leave me deformed fight"?

I only stated gun vs fists. I never stated number of fists.

Again, this is a gray area that can only now be decided upon by a DA, Judge, jury, etc. Up until, maybe now, there has been no precedence set to determine if using deadly force against someone or multilple someones with no weapons is excessive.

I was merely stating that a gun (deadly weapon) vs fist (not a legally defined deadly weapon) is considered excessive.

 

[Cavagan]

There is no cut and dry rule.

In my experience, and that is all it is, if two grown able-bodied men assault one able-bodied man, there is enough disparity of force to likely warrant a deadly force response.

"Warren on Homicide" is the closest you get to true cut and dried responses from a judge regarding deadly force law, but it is bigger than most encyclopedias and most lawyers don't even know it exists.

There is not a court in the land that will acquit you for shooting a single, unarmed attacker barring other contingencies.

FYI, this has been brought up dozens of times on this board alone and the answer never really changes.

If you want answers, consult a lawyer or do a considerable amount of legal research.

Michael Brown

+1

And I'd like to say thanks to Michael Brown for providing what I perceive to be an excellent point of view and sound, common-sense information.

 

[Stephen Cue]

Slo Ride Shooter Was Returning From Hospital Before Incident
Posted: Jan 25, 2010 5:32 PM CST
Updated: Jan 25, 2010 9:19 PM CST

TULSA, OK -- Police say one of the Tulsa's most recent homicides was not caused by road rage, but instead may have been in self defense.

Officers responded to a call at the Slo Ride Saloon near 41st & Peoria at 8:30 Friday night.

When police were called, it was the second time that day that paramedics had been out to the Slo Ride Saloon.

Earlier in the day, a bar regular had a stroke in the back parking lot and that is where the story begins.

Friends say Daniel Kitchens was not riding his Harley to the Slo Ride Saloon to relax on a Friday night.

48-year-old kitchens and his girlfriend were riding to the bar from the hospital after checking on a friend who had a stroke.

Halle Headrick, Slo Ride Saloon Bartender said, "Dan was trying to get here just to tell us and give us information about Gator that was his mindset."

However, on the way, police say Kitchens was heckled by two men, Christopher Conrad and Chester Shadwick, whom were in a pick-up truck and followed him to the bar.

01/23/2010 Related story: Tulsa Police Reveal Details Of Slo Ride Saloon Homicide

"There is not a traffic situation that would characterize a road rage. It was just somebody wanting to confront and harass somebody because they were riding a Harley down the street," said Sgt. Mike Huff, Tulsa Police Department.

Police say Conrad and Shadwick attacked Kitchens. While the assault continued, Kitchens, who police say has a valid conceal carry permit, shot Conrad once.

"The one guy was still on top of Dan behind him, had him choked down on the ground and a friend of ours grabbed that guy, pulled him off of him," said Allen Million, Slo Ride Saloon Patron & Witness.

"Dan was white as a ghost. His face was swollen. His lips busted. Just in shock," Headrick said.

EMSA pronounced Conrad dead at the scene. Police arrested Shadwick for public intoxication.

Kitchen's was released and his friends say the shooting was in self-defense.

"Dan's easy going, big-ole bear, I mean he hasn't ever been in no problems. He had had a hard day already with his buddy having a stroke. He's never done anything, just a good-ole guy," Million said.

Police are reviewing surveillance video and are continuing the investigation to determine if the shooting was in fact in self defense.

Gator, the man who had the stroke, died Sunday

"The one guy was still on top of Dan behind him, had him choked down on the ground"

If ......it went down just like that, my humble opinion is that it was justified.

 

[OologahBiker]

No one ever knows what they will ACTUALLY do in that situation tell it happens but 2 on 1 for me is clear cut somebodys going down and it aint gonna be me. hell I know personally a few guys I wouldn't try going 1 on 1 with. years ago I knew a guy who knocked another guy out with 1 punch and the guy didn't wake up for over 12 hours and when he finally woke up he didn't even know his own name or anything he got his memory back almost 2 weeks later.

 

[NikatKimber]

The point of multiple attackers was something I was really hoping would be brought to bear in the Gumm case, where there were multiple "buddies" of the assailant.

Now, I'm only 25, and fairly fit, so my view may differ from those who are older, but unless an individual is armed, I would not see reason to introduce deadly force to a situation. However, start adding extra attackers, and that changes the situation.

And again, there are no "hard and fast rules" most simply because there are no two identical cases. Every situation is unique.