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<blockquote data-quote="Saur" data-source="post: 981775" data-attributes="member: 2218"><p>Hey guys, just chiming in and relating some of my experiences from CQT and a particuar drill from a pistol class Tactical Response.</p><p></p><p>From what I read, the good guy was harassed, followed, and accosted by two bad guys. At some point, the good guy managed to break a shot on one assailant while the second assailant was working a choke hold on said good guy. Thankfully, someone stepped in and peeled off the second bad guy, and the fight ended.I've got some thoughts on why he didn't shoot the second bad guy.</p><p></p><p>One is that he could have been losing consciousness, and was unable to engage the second assailant. At Tactical Response, they have a drill where an instructor puts you in a rear naked choke and gives you the command to engage a paper target a few yards away. How quickly you lose your legs, eyesight, and consciousness was startling!</p><p></p><p>Tactical Response did show us some ways of defending against such an attack, but outside of attacking the choking arm, I feel your best bet is negotiating the fight with unarmed skills to help prevent getting caught up in that predicament from the get-go. Some of the other techniques left the gun a little open for my tastes, and I wouldn't want the opponent getting my gun in addition to my back. That leads into thought two.</p><p></p><p>Two, I've come to learn that its very hard to hit someone (with anything) when they have a superior position on you. That kind of positional dominance is what you try to prevent the other guys from getting on you, while at the same time you try to get/keep on them.</p><p></p><p>CQT covers just how to get to those positions, and how to watch out for/defend against them. Good position can mean getting your gun out and putting shots on target, or losing your gun and getting shot. Recognizing when and where to draw your gun, and having the skills to exploit those opportunities are very important. I think the good guy did something right for sure since he was able to get that pistol out and in action just against the one bad guy. Getting hits on the second bad guy would definitely have been a troubling situation (see point one above).</p><p></p><p>Its all too easy to get your draw fouled up by hands raking your arm away, or grabbing your wrists and elbows, or grabbing your own gun!. Its all too easy for your weapon to malfunction particularly if its a semi auto... slide going out of battery, failing to cycle a new round because the slide was jammed up on bodies, clothes, whatever. Even a firm grasp on the cylinder of a revolver can make for a very, very heavy trigger pull that might offer just enough of a hiccup to carry big consequences.</p><p></p><p>Three, maybe the good guy was spent. His body was giving it all in a matter of seconds. Its unfortunate, but generally speaking, bad guys with a predisposition for violence seem to be in much better shape than your average good guy. I believe Michael Brown has a good post on that here as well. I can tell you from my experiences with Force on Force training that I don't end those evolutions wishing I could bench another 10lbs, only with the idea that I need much, much more conditioning!</p><p></p><p>Four, maybe the fight was indeed over after the first shot. Even if the second guy didn't take a bullet, the fact that he just heard, or saw his buddy take a round to the chest could have provided a psychological hit to his mindset that convinced him enough was enough. Or just the simple tactical facts that his numbers were dwindling, while the good guys were increasing (bystander stepping in to peel him off) and the fact that he was unarmed, and the other side had a gun.</p><p></p><p>From what I read it sounds justifiable to me. I don't have all the facts on hand, but from what I've read it seems like getting in a gunfight was the last thing on the biker's mind when he was trying to update his buddies on the failing health of Mr. Gator.</p><p></p><p>I would also encourage everyone who DOES carry a weapon, oc spray, knife, gun, or whatever, to please seriously consider force-on-force training. I've taken a variety of courses (rifle, shotgun, various pistol courses) and by far the most beneficial for me, and certainly the most applicable to my mission (avg. good guy minding his own business self defense) has been CQT. If only for the pre-assault cue recognition and the managing unknown contacts learning blocks. Both of which were big concerns of mine prior to attending.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Saur, post: 981775, member: 2218"] Hey guys, just chiming in and relating some of my experiences from CQT and a particuar drill from a pistol class Tactical Response. From what I read, the good guy was harassed, followed, and accosted by two bad guys. At some point, the good guy managed to break a shot on one assailant while the second assailant was working a choke hold on said good guy. Thankfully, someone stepped in and peeled off the second bad guy, and the fight ended.I've got some thoughts on why he didn't shoot the second bad guy. One is that he could have been losing consciousness, and was unable to engage the second assailant. At Tactical Response, they have a drill where an instructor puts you in a rear naked choke and gives you the command to engage a paper target a few yards away. How quickly you lose your legs, eyesight, and consciousness was startling! Tactical Response did show us some ways of defending against such an attack, but outside of attacking the choking arm, I feel your best bet is negotiating the fight with unarmed skills to help prevent getting caught up in that predicament from the get-go. Some of the other techniques left the gun a little open for my tastes, and I wouldn't want the opponent getting my gun in addition to my back. That leads into thought two. Two, I've come to learn that its very hard to hit someone (with anything) when they have a superior position on you. That kind of positional dominance is what you try to prevent the other guys from getting on you, while at the same time you try to get/keep on them. CQT covers just how to get to those positions, and how to watch out for/defend against them. Good position can mean getting your gun out and putting shots on target, or losing your gun and getting shot. Recognizing when and where to draw your gun, and having the skills to exploit those opportunities are very important. I think the good guy did something right for sure since he was able to get that pistol out and in action just against the one bad guy. Getting hits on the second bad guy would definitely have been a troubling situation (see point one above). Its all too easy to get your draw fouled up by hands raking your arm away, or grabbing your wrists and elbows, or grabbing your own gun!. Its all too easy for your weapon to malfunction particularly if its a semi auto... slide going out of battery, failing to cycle a new round because the slide was jammed up on bodies, clothes, whatever. Even a firm grasp on the cylinder of a revolver can make for a very, very heavy trigger pull that might offer just enough of a hiccup to carry big consequences. Three, maybe the good guy was spent. His body was giving it all in a matter of seconds. Its unfortunate, but generally speaking, bad guys with a predisposition for violence seem to be in much better shape than your average good guy. I believe Michael Brown has a good post on that here as well. I can tell you from my experiences with Force on Force training that I don't end those evolutions wishing I could bench another 10lbs, only with the idea that I need much, much more conditioning! Four, maybe the fight was indeed over after the first shot. Even if the second guy didn't take a bullet, the fact that he just heard, or saw his buddy take a round to the chest could have provided a psychological hit to his mindset that convinced him enough was enough. Or just the simple tactical facts that his numbers were dwindling, while the good guys were increasing (bystander stepping in to peel him off) and the fact that he was unarmed, and the other side had a gun. From what I read it sounds justifiable to me. I don't have all the facts on hand, but from what I've read it seems like getting in a gunfight was the last thing on the biker's mind when he was trying to update his buddies on the failing health of Mr. Gator. I would also encourage everyone who DOES carry a weapon, oc spray, knife, gun, or whatever, to please seriously consider force-on-force training. I've taken a variety of courses (rifle, shotgun, various pistol courses) and by far the most beneficial for me, and certainly the most applicable to my mission (avg. good guy minding his own business self defense) has been CQT. If only for the pre-assault cue recognition and the managing unknown contacts learning blocks. Both of which were big concerns of mine prior to attending. [/QUOTE]
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