Silly ATF Pistol Scorecard Question

[Finnished]

Howdy all,

As a bit of a thought exercise I read through the ATF scorecard to see what some firearms would be classified as.

Of course pistol braces and such face the majority of scrutiny, but one item that I can't say for certain: what about a "Draco"?

The main issue I see is how it is defined with "presence of a grip for two handed fire".

Clearly, a Draco doesn't have a brace, or often cant even accept a stock. But according to the ATF, that second grip is a no go. So does that mean the end of the Draco? For those unfamilar, here is one example of what I'm referring to coloquially as a Draco

 

[GC7]

It depends on what the ATF agent ate for breakfast that day. You cannot make sense from nonsense.

 

[HiredHand]

I thought the scorecard was only for brace equipped firearms.

 

[Finnished]

I thought the scorecard was only for brace equipped firearms.

That is good to know. That would answer it right away then. Just some of the language expanding beyond braces led me to believe it included all pistols

 

[Finnished]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives reserves the right to preclude classification as a pistol with a “stabilizing braces” for any firearm that achieves an apparent qualifying score but is an attempt to make a “short-barreled rifle” and circumvent the GCA or NFA

At the top of page 1. I dont think its limited to just braced firearms.

 

[JEVapa]

But according to the ATF, that second grip is a no go. So does that mean the end of the Draco?

A handguard is not a grip. There are multiple pistol configurations that have handguards.

You can go google/DDG the secondary grip thing and most everything you'll find is just like everything else they produce - a letter to an individual who asked the question. Every one I've seen points to some kind of stick, vertical grip, or angled grip, of which they are all outlawed per regs regardless of what people call them.

Don't take it from me, call them. They'll tell you.

 

[Finnished]

A handguard is not a grip. There are multiple pistol configurations that have handguards.

You can go google/DDG the secondary grip thing and most everything you'll find is just like everything else they produce - a letter to an individual who asked the question. Every one I've seen points to some kind of stick, vertical grip, or angled grip, of which they are all outlawed per regs regardless of what people call them.

Don't take it from me, call them. They'll tell you.

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Makes sense as much as it can make sense. The language on the form does not say that. It simply says "indicating two handed fire". By saying its a handguard, that implies your hand would be there. But for it to be there, you'd also have a hand on the pistol grip. I'm following what you're saying, but given the ATF track record on saying one thing and doubling back, it seems vague enough to become a gotcha for some unlucky winner of an ATF visit

 

[rickm]

They use wording so that they can decipher it how they want to, how many of you use two hands when shooting any kind of pistol does that make all pistols illegal, see where im going with it the ATF has a bad habit of changing things to suit them as they go along.

 

[Finnished]

They use wording so that they can decipher it how they want to, how many of you use two hands when shooting any kind of pistol does that make all pistols illegal, see where im going with it the ATF has a bad habit of changing things to suit them as they go along.

I dont know that having two hands gripping the same location is the issue. They refer to a secondary grip. The issue, the definition of grip is not clear, but what is clear is that it "indicates two handed fire". So can a handguard be a grip if it indicates two handed fire? I think a jury of randomly selected peers would be out on that one

 

[cowadle]

i guess once they confiscate all firearms???? will they be known as the BAT?