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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Slidefire vs. Fostech bump-fire stocks
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<blockquote data-quote="Perplexed" data-source="post: 1949028" data-attributes="member: 7157"><p>I thought some of you might want to read about a back-to-back comparison of AR15 bump-fire stocks offered by Slidefire and Fostech; I have a Generation 1 version of the former, and I picked up a NIB DefendAR-15 stock dirt cheap. With those two stocks on hand, and two ARs in the same caliber, I decided to install the stocks on thse ARs and take them to the range for some shooting impressions.</p><p></p><p>Both ARs were cobbled together with parts from various makers, and are chambered for 5.45x39. My reason for this choice is that milsurp ammo in this caliber considerably cheaper than even steel-cased 5.56. With bump firing, I expect to go through a lot of rounds, so the cost of ammo would widen in a hurry between these two calibers. The drawback to 5.45 is that the milsurp ammo is mildly corrosive, so its imperative to do a thorough cleaning of the rifle immediately after a range session. Here's what the first AR was assembled with:</p><p></p><p>-- Armalite lower with RRA two-stage trigger kit</p><p>-- S&W M&P 16 upper with carbine-length gas system and PWSC556 compensator</p><p>-- EOTech 556 Holographic sight</p><p>-- Slidefire SSAR-15 stock</p><p></p><p>The other AR has the following:</p><p></p><p>-- S&W M&P Lower (yes, its the mate of the upper on the other rifle) with Geissele SD3G trigger kit</p><p>-- Lothar Walther 16 barrel with mid-length gas system and SJC Titan compensator</p><p>-- AimPoint Micro T1 red dot sight</p><p>-- Fostech DefendAR-15 stock</p><p></p><p>Following are my thoughts on the two stocks as far as their appearance, fit and finish, and ease of installation. YMMV, of course.</p><p></p><p>SSAR15 stock: when I first got this stock in the mail and opened the package, I was slightly taken aback by its relatively cheap and crude appearance. The entire assembly is made of plastic, with a couple metal bits. Its essentially a one-piece unit, with the pistol grip molded into an extension of the stock, so changing the grip is not possible without cutting and gluing. I consider that a ding, as the provided grip is hard and not particularly comfortable to use, and theres no cap for the hollow grip. The sheet of instructions was somewhat brief, but with the few parts involved, installation on the AR wasnt difficult and took only a few minutes. Once in place, the stock moves freely back and forth a bit over an inch, and the nice thing about it is that you can lock it in two or three different positions for single-shot use. In its furthest rearmost position, the trigger is clear of obstructions, with the wing on the side of the grip well behind the trigger.</p><p></p><p>DefendAR-15 Stock: when I picked up the package containing this stock, my first thought was the company mustve included a thick manual or something, because it was HEAVY! Opening the package revealed no such manual, but a beefy stock made almost completely out of aluminum, with thick components including a sub-frame apparently milled out of bar stock. This bump-fire stock is easily several times heavier than a standard AR collapsible stock, and I was concerned about how its heft might affect the handling characteristics of my AR. The machining and fit and finish are quite good, though its obvious the producer is a small company with limited resources, as some of the details are simple, straightforward, and utilitarian nothing graceful about this chunk of metal. Installation took longer than with the SSAR-15 stock, because there were eight or nine parts, yet no instruction sheet was provided. Instead, I had to visit Fostechs web site and view an installation video. This video was not very well done, with the camera mounted directly over a work table that was not well-lit. The person doing the installation kept bending over the work, so his head sometimes blocked the view of the part being installed, and I was left to fill in the blanks. It wasnt hard, but it did take longer. One thing I found questionable was Fostechs claim that the stock can accept different pistol grips, which I think is a major selling point. In my experience, this claim was not true, as I tried both a standard A2 grip and an Ergo AMBI grip, but neither would fit the block on the stock, which would fit into the groove in the top of the grip, was too wide. Not having any other grips in my stash, I resorted to installing the grip that was included with the DefendAR stock; fortunately, this grip is a decent one with a rubber plug in the bottom. Still, this discrepancy between the claim and the reality was annoying. After the stock was installed, I found that it locks only in one position, with the finger rest blocking one side of the trigger such that I had to use my finger tip on the trigger when shooting in single-shot mode. In a nutshell, the SSAR-15 stock has the edge in adjustability and weight, and the DefendAR-15 stock scores on quality.</p><p></p><p>After all this, it was time for a range session! That took place this morning cool and sunny, with a moderate breeze. Good bump-firing weather, and I loaded up both ARs, some new ASC 30-round magazines with followers designed specifically for the 5.45x39 round, and plenty of ammo. The range was empty when I first got there with a friend, but other shooters started coming through soon after. First up was the SSAR-equipped AR, which performed flawlessly with the first load but developed failure-to-feed issues on almost every load thereafter. I suspect the new magazines, as the C-Products magazine which came with the M&P Pro AR works just fine. This is odd, since ASC supposedly produces their magazines on the C-Products tooling, after ASC bought out this company. Moving on The DefendAR-equipped AR performed much like the other AR, again with the occasional feed issue. I had forgotten to bring the C-Products magazine, so I could not try it and see if it worked without issues, but I will next time.</p><p></p><p>As far as the performance of the two stocks went, I really couldnt say one was better than the other. Both performed as advertised, with no issues relating directly to the function of the stocks. The heft of the DefendAR stock turned out not to be much of an issue during a plinking session, and may in fact have helped tame the recoil a bit. If I were to shoot often in single-shot mode, Id give the nod to the SSAR stock for its multiple locking positions, but shooting in full auto mode was more stylish with the better-looking DefendAR stock. SlideFire now offers a second-generation SSAR stock, which resembles a skeletonized AR stock and, IMHO, looks far better than the first-generation stock that I have. If Id been using the second-generation stock, Id be inclined to give that stock the nod over the DefendAR stock because of its lower price relative to the metal stock, and because of its adjustability. If I could have used different grips on the DefendAR stock, Id consider the matter closer to a toss-up, but again the SSAR stock would probably win out.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the performance of the ARs as an overall platform, it was no contest the middy AR was definitely more pleasant to shoot than the AR with the carbine gas system, and Im confident the Titan comp contributed to that sensation. Muzzle rise was considerably reduced with the Titan comp compared to the PSWC comp, and I found magazine dumps to be a bit more controllable with the Titan-equipped AR. When standing to one side while my friend shot both ARs, I felt sharp concussions from the AR with the PSWC comp, while the Titan comp sent out softer pulses. Noise from both seemed somewhat comparable, and my friend agreed.</p><p></p><p>While at the range, I met Cavedweller from here on the forum, who was shooting with his buddy and some other folks. I let both him and his friend do a mag dump each on the Titan-equipped AR, and both came away with smiles, muttering that was crazy! CD let me put 5 rounds through his Mossberg short-barreled shotgun, which was a real treat as it was the first SBS Id ever seen, let alone used. I just might have to get that paperwork in for one of those things</p><p></p><p>I hope this lengthy report was useful and entertaining to you readers!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Perplexed, post: 1949028, member: 7157"] I thought some of you might want to read about a back-to-back comparison of AR15 bump-fire stocks offered by Slidefire and Fostech; I have a Generation 1 version of the former, and I picked up a NIB DefendAR-15 stock dirt cheap. With those two stocks on hand, and two ARs in the same caliber, I decided to install the stocks on thse ARs and take them to the range for some shooting impressions. Both ARs were cobbled together with parts from various makers, and are chambered for 5.45x39. My reason for this choice is that milsurp ammo in this caliber considerably cheaper than even steel-cased 5.56. With bump firing, I expect to go through a lot of rounds, so the cost of ammo would widen in a hurry between these two calibers. The drawback to 5.45 is that the milsurp ammo is mildly corrosive, so its imperative to do a thorough cleaning of the rifle immediately after a range session. Here's what the first AR was assembled with: -- Armalite lower with RRA two-stage trigger kit -- S&W M&P 16 upper with carbine-length gas system and PWSC556 compensator -- EOTech 556 Holographic sight -- Slidefire SSAR-15 stock The other AR has the following: -- S&W M&P Lower (yes, its the mate of the upper on the other rifle) with Geissele SD3G trigger kit -- Lothar Walther 16 barrel with mid-length gas system and SJC Titan compensator -- AimPoint Micro T1 red dot sight -- Fostech DefendAR-15 stock Following are my thoughts on the two stocks as far as their appearance, fit and finish, and ease of installation. YMMV, of course. SSAR15 stock: when I first got this stock in the mail and opened the package, I was slightly taken aback by its relatively cheap and crude appearance. The entire assembly is made of plastic, with a couple metal bits. Its essentially a one-piece unit, with the pistol grip molded into an extension of the stock, so changing the grip is not possible without cutting and gluing. I consider that a ding, as the provided grip is hard and not particularly comfortable to use, and theres no cap for the hollow grip. The sheet of instructions was somewhat brief, but with the few parts involved, installation on the AR wasnt difficult and took only a few minutes. Once in place, the stock moves freely back and forth a bit over an inch, and the nice thing about it is that you can lock it in two or three different positions for single-shot use. In its furthest rearmost position, the trigger is clear of obstructions, with the wing on the side of the grip well behind the trigger. DefendAR-15 Stock: when I picked up the package containing this stock, my first thought was the company mustve included a thick manual or something, because it was HEAVY! Opening the package revealed no such manual, but a beefy stock made almost completely out of aluminum, with thick components including a sub-frame apparently milled out of bar stock. This bump-fire stock is easily several times heavier than a standard AR collapsible stock, and I was concerned about how its heft might affect the handling characteristics of my AR. The machining and fit and finish are quite good, though its obvious the producer is a small company with limited resources, as some of the details are simple, straightforward, and utilitarian nothing graceful about this chunk of metal. Installation took longer than with the SSAR-15 stock, because there were eight or nine parts, yet no instruction sheet was provided. Instead, I had to visit Fostechs web site and view an installation video. This video was not very well done, with the camera mounted directly over a work table that was not well-lit. The person doing the installation kept bending over the work, so his head sometimes blocked the view of the part being installed, and I was left to fill in the blanks. It wasnt hard, but it did take longer. One thing I found questionable was Fostechs claim that the stock can accept different pistol grips, which I think is a major selling point. In my experience, this claim was not true, as I tried both a standard A2 grip and an Ergo AMBI grip, but neither would fit the block on the stock, which would fit into the groove in the top of the grip, was too wide. Not having any other grips in my stash, I resorted to installing the grip that was included with the DefendAR stock; fortunately, this grip is a decent one with a rubber plug in the bottom. Still, this discrepancy between the claim and the reality was annoying. After the stock was installed, I found that it locks only in one position, with the finger rest blocking one side of the trigger such that I had to use my finger tip on the trigger when shooting in single-shot mode. In a nutshell, the SSAR-15 stock has the edge in adjustability and weight, and the DefendAR-15 stock scores on quality. After all this, it was time for a range session! That took place this morning cool and sunny, with a moderate breeze. Good bump-firing weather, and I loaded up both ARs, some new ASC 30-round magazines with followers designed specifically for the 5.45x39 round, and plenty of ammo. The range was empty when I first got there with a friend, but other shooters started coming through soon after. First up was the SSAR-equipped AR, which performed flawlessly with the first load but developed failure-to-feed issues on almost every load thereafter. I suspect the new magazines, as the C-Products magazine which came with the M&P Pro AR works just fine. This is odd, since ASC supposedly produces their magazines on the C-Products tooling, after ASC bought out this company. Moving on The DefendAR-equipped AR performed much like the other AR, again with the occasional feed issue. I had forgotten to bring the C-Products magazine, so I could not try it and see if it worked without issues, but I will next time. As far as the performance of the two stocks went, I really couldnt say one was better than the other. Both performed as advertised, with no issues relating directly to the function of the stocks. The heft of the DefendAR stock turned out not to be much of an issue during a plinking session, and may in fact have helped tame the recoil a bit. If I were to shoot often in single-shot mode, Id give the nod to the SSAR stock for its multiple locking positions, but shooting in full auto mode was more stylish with the better-looking DefendAR stock. SlideFire now offers a second-generation SSAR stock, which resembles a skeletonized AR stock and, IMHO, looks far better than the first-generation stock that I have. If Id been using the second-generation stock, Id be inclined to give that stock the nod over the DefendAR stock because of its lower price relative to the metal stock, and because of its adjustability. If I could have used different grips on the DefendAR stock, Id consider the matter closer to a toss-up, but again the SSAR stock would probably win out. Regarding the performance of the ARs as an overall platform, it was no contest the middy AR was definitely more pleasant to shoot than the AR with the carbine gas system, and Im confident the Titan comp contributed to that sensation. Muzzle rise was considerably reduced with the Titan comp compared to the PSWC comp, and I found magazine dumps to be a bit more controllable with the Titan-equipped AR. When standing to one side while my friend shot both ARs, I felt sharp concussions from the AR with the PSWC comp, while the Titan comp sent out softer pulses. Noise from both seemed somewhat comparable, and my friend agreed. While at the range, I met Cavedweller from here on the forum, who was shooting with his buddy and some other folks. I let both him and his friend do a mag dump each on the Titan-equipped AR, and both came away with smiles, muttering that was crazy! CD let me put 5 rounds through his Mossberg short-barreled shotgun, which was a real treat as it was the first SBS Id ever seen, let alone used. I just might have to get that paperwork in for one of those things I hope this lengthy report was useful and entertaining to you readers! [/QUOTE]
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