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The Range
Firearms Chat
so i bought something through private sale..
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<blockquote data-quote="Rod Snell" data-source="post: 2473697" data-attributes="member: 796"><p>Well, I'll try once again to get the point across, even though at least one person is intentionally CHANGING what I said (misquote somebody and then ridicule what they did NOT say is a standard tactic used by politicians and anti-gunners). </p><p> The ATF guidelines I posted make the following points:</p><p>1. Private sales to a non-prohibited person RESIDING IN YOUR STATE are allowed, and no recordkeeping is required.</p><p>2. Private sales to a RESIDENT OF ANOTHER STATE are a federal felony. The only question, if caught, is whether the seller, the buyer, or BOTH, are charged. There is no debate whether the sale is illegal; it IS.</p><p></p><p>A. If both buyer and seller conspired to violate the law with an illegal transfer across state lines, then BOTH are charged. One case I posted was a seller in ME who knowingly sold to a New Yorker. At the time, only the ME resident had been caught, the buyer was wanted.</p><p>B. If the buyer has, say, a phony ID, then the seller who looks at it has made a reasonable attempt to follow the law, and the BUYER is charged. One case I posted was a NJ resident who obtained a fake PA ID and bought several guns in PA, then sold them in NJ. He was charged with illegal transfers across state line and DEALING WITHOUT AN FFL. </p><p>C. If a seller goes to another state and , say, does private sales at gun shows to residents of the other state, that is an ILLEGAL sale. I didn't post it, but one non-FFL routinely traveled between Ohio and PA, buying and selling in both states. He was put in prison for illegal private sales and DEALING WITHOUT AN FFL. Some people who did transactions with him were subjects of an ongoing investigation.</p><p></p><p>So my caution only applies IF YOU MAKE AN ILLEGAL SALE/PURCHASE. How much do you want to be investigated and (possibly) charged?</p><p>A simple pre-existing note that "I sold that gun to Bill Smith of OK in Apr of last year. He showed me an OK DL." is an excellent way to show you made a reasonable attempt to follow the law, and did not know that Bill Smith was a Chicago gun runner with a stolen DL. I'm off the hook.</p><p></p><p>And for those that think NOT making some attempt to determine state of residence automatically lets you off the hook, it DOES NOT. When the ATF comes to the door because your gun listed on the yellow sheet was recovered at a crime scene, YOU are at that point the subject of an investigation. If during such investigation it is revealed that you are "engaging in the business of buying and selling guns without an FFL" that is another charge. Note that in the IL case, one man was convicted of this for selling 7 GUNS.</p><p></p><p>I strongly suggest that everyone go back and READ the entire ATF pamphlet, for what it ACTUALLY SAYS.</p><p><a href="http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>If you never get involved in an illegal sale, then obviously you will never have to deal with this. Question is, when you DO get involved in one (knowingly or not) do you want to have a little insurance to document you always make a good faith effort to comply with the law? For me, I like insurance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rod Snell, post: 2473697, member: 796"] Well, I'll try once again to get the point across, even though at least one person is intentionally CHANGING what I said (misquote somebody and then ridicule what they did NOT say is a standard tactic used by politicians and anti-gunners). The ATF guidelines I posted make the following points: 1. Private sales to a non-prohibited person RESIDING IN YOUR STATE are allowed, and no recordkeeping is required. 2. Private sales to a RESIDENT OF ANOTHER STATE are a federal felony. The only question, if caught, is whether the seller, the buyer, or BOTH, are charged. There is no debate whether the sale is illegal; it IS. A. If both buyer and seller conspired to violate the law with an illegal transfer across state lines, then BOTH are charged. One case I posted was a seller in ME who knowingly sold to a New Yorker. At the time, only the ME resident had been caught, the buyer was wanted. B. If the buyer has, say, a phony ID, then the seller who looks at it has made a reasonable attempt to follow the law, and the BUYER is charged. One case I posted was a NJ resident who obtained a fake PA ID and bought several guns in PA, then sold them in NJ. He was charged with illegal transfers across state line and DEALING WITHOUT AN FFL. C. If a seller goes to another state and , say, does private sales at gun shows to residents of the other state, that is an ILLEGAL sale. I didn't post it, but one non-FFL routinely traveled between Ohio and PA, buying and selling in both states. He was put in prison for illegal private sales and DEALING WITHOUT AN FFL. Some people who did transactions with him were subjects of an ongoing investigation. So my caution only applies IF YOU MAKE AN ILLEGAL SALE/PURCHASE. How much do you want to be investigated and (possibly) charged? A simple pre-existing note that "I sold that gun to Bill Smith of OK in Apr of last year. He showed me an OK DL." is an excellent way to show you made a reasonable attempt to follow the law, and did not know that Bill Smith was a Chicago gun runner with a stolen DL. I'm off the hook. And for those that think NOT making some attempt to determine state of residence automatically lets you off the hook, it DOES NOT. When the ATF comes to the door because your gun listed on the yellow sheet was recovered at a crime scene, YOU are at that point the subject of an investigation. If during such investigation it is revealed that you are "engaging in the business of buying and selling guns without an FFL" that is another charge. Note that in the IL case, one man was convicted of this for selling 7 GUNS. I strongly suggest that everyone go back and READ the entire ATF pamphlet, for what it ACTUALLY SAYS. [url]http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf[/url] If you never get involved in an illegal sale, then obviously you will never have to deal with this. Question is, when you DO get involved in one (knowingly or not) do you want to have a little insurance to document you always make a good faith effort to comply with the law? For me, I like insurance. [/QUOTE]
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